Pre Model 24

[carlwil]

Howdy,
Just obtained yesterday and would like to know how original the revolver is. The serial # is S118164 which should make it a late 54 or early 55. The grips are smooth and do not have the thumb relief or any numbers. It is nickle plated, 5 screw and not recessed. Thanks in advance to any who would like to offer input.

 

[Peak53]

It is a fine looking gun, but I would question whether the nickle is original. The pics, although not real clear, hint at some dishing around screws and a maybe a small gap around the side plate. Or, I might be seeing funny. Look for a B or N on the cylinder above the ejector star to see how it originally shipped. Look for a 4 digit date stamp on the left side of the grip frame under the stocks, designating as having been back to the factory for work. Are the hammer and trigger case hardened or plated? The smooth target non-relieved stocks look period correct and could have been special order and are worth a bundle. The book says 50% premium for 4" barrel. Very Good - $1250. Excellent $2700. Pretty scarce. I like.

 

[viceunit]

The trigger and hammer appear in one picture too also have been plated which would indicate a non-factory refinish. But in another picture I think I see case hardening. Could be the refinish has worn off of those parts. They took the time not to plate the front sight and ramp, but not the trigger and hammer. The barrel roll stamps and trademark appear to have been buffed also. But, I like it.

 

[Hondo44]

That's a nice 44.

 

[carlwil]

Thanks for the great info. The trigger and hammer are plated. The only numbers of the rear of the cylinder is the serial #. On the side of the frame under the grip is a letter R above the numeral 4 which is above a letter B. I think the previous owner was a serious shooter as it has a trigger shoe and a very light and super smooth trigger.

 

[Gunhacker]

If those grips are unmodified originals, they're a fairly rare breed.

Unrelieved target grips are what the original style was when the Target grips first came out. The extractor relief (football) cut was added a few years later to address the issue of the extractor star hitting the grip.

Unrelieved checkered target grips are uncommon enough... but unrelieved smooth targets? First time I've seen them.

 

[carlwil]

I have not been able to find pictures of the grips that are not relieved online or in any of my books. I have the 4th edition of the Standard Catalog of S&W coming. Thanks Conrad.

 

[Hondo44]

I agree, your target grips are proper vintage for your 44, and may have come on it originally as an order option.

They are the evolution of the first style "coke" grips from the early 1950's. Notice yours have the distinctive
'long' wood filler behind the trigger guard, remnants of the early cokes below. Although w/o the palm swell and flare at the butt of the early cokes.

Right side palm swell that gave them the nickname 'cokes':

Long trigger guard wood and flare at the butt:

 

[Hondo44]

Original factory checkered non-relieved targets just a little later than yours from the 1956 era on a Pre Mod 24:

 

[moosedog]

I'm going to venture a guess that your gun has been hard chromed rather than nickel just from what I see in the pictures.
I like the fact that it's a four inch pre 24 and especially with the Red Ramp sight and the target grips. Should be a nice shooter.

 

[Mike C2]

That is an absolutely beautiful gun that I would be proud to own!

I bought it's near twin but in .357. Although it was the less attractive "behind the camera" twin. ;-)

This is a chrome plated first year Highway Patrolman. And it came with these non-relieved, what the consensus believes are Rosewood, target stocks. Which is why I bought it.

 

[carlwil]

Thanks guys for the additional information. Glad to see the pictures of the coke grips. May be hard chromed instead of nickle. Not sure that I could tell the difference. Does have me wondering about a couple of my other revolvers. I will post them to see what you think.

 

[kennethg]

Even though it is probably not as it was when it left the factory, it is still cool and desirable. It should be an enjoyable shooter. There is just something special about the "N" frame 38 Special and the 44 Special revolvers. Especially those with a 4 inch barrel. I don't think anybody mentioned that 44 Special revolver cylinders were never recessed.

 

[g8rb8]

Does anyone think the barrel of the revolver posted by carlwil has been cut back to 4"? To me it looks as if it were cut back based on two observations:
1. The lettering on the barrel does not look centered.
2. When compared to the 4" barrel on the revolver posted by Mike C2 the lettering on the barrel is centered differently. I see "Smith" on the barrel not extending beyond the lug under the barrel on the 4" barrel posted by Mike C2. I see the letter S of "Smith" on the barrel of the revolver posted by carlwil extending beyond the lug under the barrel.

 

[tennexplorer]

Your gun is in a range of serial numbers where there is a concentration of 4" guns. I have seen a couple of documented 4" guns where the lettering is way far forward. If the barrel was shortened, it was done at the factory as shown by the round headed pins holding on the front sight base. That type of pin is also usually found on 1950's with the red ramp front sight. Are you sure the hammer and trigger have been nickeled? The picture really makes it hard to determine if they are nickeled, or shiny from wear, or had the color case polished off. (Previous owner wanted whole gun shiny.) I would recommend getting a letter on this revolver. There were only 200 to 400 of the four inchers made. If it turns out to be even scarcer factory nickel, you may find the price move noticeably up from estimates given previously.

 

[Doc44]

1950 44 Targets with a 4-inch barrel are scarce. I noticed a B stamped in the extractor rod shroud and there is probably one stamped on the lower left hand corner of the grip frame. This would verify your 44 was shipped with a blue or bright blue finish.

Bill

 

[g8rb8]

Your gun is in a range of serial numbers where there is a concentration of 4" guns. I have seen a couple of documented 4" guns where the lettering is way far forward. ........ I would recommend getting a letter on this revolver. There were only 200 to 400 of the four inchers made.....

tennexplorer,
Thanks for the useful information. My apologies for any undue concerns raised by my question and observations about the barrel.

 

[carlwil]

I'm really getting an education from all of you. I will consider getting a letter on this gun and possibly on my 38/44. Thanks again.

 

[carlwil]

Just checked and Bill is correct about the B stamped in the injector rod shroud and there is a B on the grip frame. Also I'm pretty sure the hammer and trigger are plated.The revolver shows very little wear. I'm anxious to get to the range to see how it shoots.

 

[S&W ucla]

I'm anxious to get to the range to see how it shoots.

Now yer talkin'!!
Letter is a good idea. Only way to know if it was an original 4" gun and you learn when and where it shipped. Looking forward to range report, that's what they were made for! I've had good luck with HSM 240gr LSWC ammo.
Pleasant and accurate in mine.

 

[jsfricks]

You may want to throw on a set so Pachmayrs before going to the range. With those grips you’ll find it’s easy to dent the wood when extracting the empty brass and you definitely don’t want to dent those grips.

 

[Hondo44]

Just checked and Bill is correct about the B stamped in the injector rod shroud and there is a B on the grip frame. Also I'm pretty sure the hammer and trigger are plated.The revolver shows very little wear. I'm anxious to get to the range to see how it shoots.

When you first posted the photo of barrel shroud the letter prefix looked like an S when I zoomed in. You may want to check with magnification.


NOTE: B or N stamped or no stamp:
To determine if Blue or Nickel finish originally, a 'B' or 'N' stamped indicates an original Blue finish or an original Nickel finish respectively, based upon the corresponding letter. The absence (more prevalent after 1930) of either the 'B' or 'N' can also indicate that it left the factory nickeled.

Look in these locations for pre war and post war models if serial # is stamped on the barrel flat (or in barrel shroud):

Under barrel in front of serial #,
rear face of yoke looking thru a chamber with a flashlight,
on rear face of cyl separated from serial #,
behind the extractor star,
and by itself on right side grip frame on pre war commercial guns.

On post WWII models, once the serial # prefix letter (S on N frames and K frames) was introduced we no longer see the use of B or N except on left side grip frame. And no use of B or N at all on late 50’s models with no s/n on barrel and cyl.*

*The post war and the 1950s period, was one of much evolution. There was the usual transition when blue or nickel finish code letter stamps waned and s/n frame prefix letters began.

LARGER B FOR BRIGHT BLUE: will only appear on guns that had a Satin finish as standard, but could be ordered in the optional Bright Blue. It is usually only seen on the various models in the 5 Screw era. It is a larger B than the one used to simply indicate a blued part, and it is a different font - more deluxe with serifs. It is also AFTER the serial number on a barrel or in the barrel shroud, whereas the smaller B that simply meant "Blue" is seen preceding the number.
It appears from early into the post-war era till Bright Blue became standard in the mid 1950s.

 

[Doc44]

Jim...44 Magnums with a 5-screw frame and finished in nickel have an N stamped in the ejector rod shroud along with the serial number. There is also an N stamped on the lower left hand corner of the grip frame (the N in this location continued to be used through the 70s at least). The B stamped in the ejector rod shroud is seen on 1950 44 Targets shipped with a bright blue finish in early to late 1955 (also a B stamped on the left side of the grip frame). I also have a 44 Magnum shipped in January 1956 with a B stamped in the same locations.

Bill

 

[Hondo44]

Jim...44 Magnums with a 5-screw frame and finished in nickel have an N stamped in the ejector rod shroud along with the serial number. There is also an N stamped on the lower left hand corner of the grip frame (the N in this location continued to be used through the 70s at least). The B stamped in the ejector rod shroud is seen on 1950 44 Targets shipped with a bright blue finish in early to late 1955 (also a B stamped on the left side of the grip frame). I also have a 44 Magnum shipped in January 1956 with a B stamped in the same locations.

Bill

Hi Bill,
Yes, the 5 screw 44 mags and the '56 4 screw fit the inconsistency of the transition pattern in my footnote.

But all my 50 targets in blue have no B prefixes, just the S serial prefix like the OP's. My bright blue 44 target has the large B with fancier font following the barrel serial # as outlined above.

44 Mags would not have the large B suffix because the Bright blue was standard on all 44 Mags.

 

[handejector]

When you first posted the photo of barrel shroud the letter prefix looked like an S when I zoomed in. You may want to check with magnification.

But all my 50 targets in blue have no B prefixes, just the S serial prefix like the OP's. My bright blue 44 target has the large B with fancier font following the barrel serial # as outlined above.

Jim,
You're talking apples, and Bill is talking about oranges.
The serial number does have an S prefix, but you apparently missed the B in the shroud.

Pic attached.

 

[Hondo44]

Bill, Lee,

Uh oh, sorry, is that a "lazy" large B suffix, laying down on the OP's gun?

If so I hadn't seen any laying down before.

One Bright blue 5 screw pre 24 of mine has no large B which I presume was because it shipped after bright blue was standard.

And in contrast: None of my 5 screw pre 24s have a small B in the shroud or on the left side grip frame.

 

[carlwil]

Just got a magnifying glass and the Pre 24 out of the safe. I agree that it has a large B on it's side in the barrel shroud.
Another question please. My 38/44 with a 1955-56 serial number has excellent nickle plating but there not an N or a B anywhere to be found. Could it be factory original? Thanks again for all the good info.
Carl

 

[Hondo44]

Another question please. My 38/44 with a 1955-56 serial number has excellent nickle plating but there not an N or a B anywhere to be found. Could it be factory original? Thanks again for all the good info.
Carl

Yes, from post #23 above: "The absence (more prevalent after 1930) of either the 'B' or 'N' can also indicate that it left the factory nickeled."

 

[iskra]

My Similar...

Sir.
Grips are very similar to mine. I have understood this to be the correct type of grips for these 4 inch Pre 24's. I have also been wrong before.
Serial # S 118081 on the front gun.
Bill@Yuma

Close SNs/same grips! Below my Pre 24, SN S 118060 for comparison. Note the positioning of my barrel nomenclature! So once again, what's the consensus on how many of these 4" barrel 24 & pre's are estimated to have been made & any hard stats?

Moving right along, what's that other very interesting 44 hovering in the shadow of your 'pre'? Such appearing prewar or Transitional Target???

Smith 44 Spls, personal favorite guns/chambering! Very nice/interesting ones here.
My take

 

[Doc44]

iskra...There were just over four hundred 1950 44 Target revolvers with a 4-inch barrel shipped between June 1950 and June 1956. Based on this number, I believe good estimate of the number made is 500.

Bill