Pre Victory ??

[raisedin99]

Was talking by phone with a friend who told me he bought a what appears to be a model of 1905 4th change.
Description as follows, frame has no S&W logo or one line Made in USA stamping. The serial# 310xxx is located on the bottom of the grip frame, cylinder and bottom of barrel flat. Smith and Wesson on the left side of the barrel patent info on top of barrel.
Right side of the barrel is marked with what he describes as a two prong fork then 38 S&W special ctg followed by another two prong fork.The finish of this revolver is what he describes as parkerized. According to SCSW the serial number range is 1915 - 1942. Also no lanyard ring hole.

We are questioning the two prong forks, lack of S&W logo or one line Made in USA stamping as well as the possible parkerized finish. Friend lives at a distance and does not have internet hence the lack of photos.

Would appreciate any knowledge you folks could shed on this revolver and as always thanks for your time.



terry

 

[Muley Gil]

Your friend has a .38 Military & Police built before mid 1922. That is when the "Made in USA" stamp began.

It could have been Parkerized at any time from WW II forward.

 

[DWalt]

310xxx would date that M&P as probably shipping around late 1919 and likely manufactured in mid-1919. Indeed, it would not have the S&W logo stamped on the frame at that time. There is nothing unusual about the "two-pronged forks" Collectors usually call them dingbats. They have something to do with achieving a uniform barrel stamping. The correct new finish would have been a very glossy deep blue, nothing like Parkerizing (actually phosphating), which was not used until 1942.

 

[gordonrick]

Just curious, what grips (stocks) are on it now? The originals would likely have been checkered walnut with small gold S&W medallions like this one, a few thousand numbers later than yours.

BTW - they were only missing the logo on the side for a year or so after WWI so the late 1919 date is very likely. This gun was made shortly before S&W began heat treating the cylinders so stay away from hot loads, no +P!

 

[raisedin99]

Just curious, what grips (stocks) are on it now? The originals would likely have been checkered walnut with small gold S&W medallions like this one, a few thousand numbers later than yours.

BTW - they were only missing the logo on the side for a year or so after WWI so the late 1919 date is very likely. This gun was made shortly before S&W began heat treating the cylinders so stay away from hot loads, no +P!

My friends description the grips was smooth walnut without medallions I just assumed them to be Victory type grips and we didn't discuss them much.

terry

 

[Muley Gil]

My friends description the grips was smooth walnut without medallions I just assumed them to be Victory type grips and we didn't discuss them much.

terry

Yes, the smooth walnut grips were used on the Victory model .38s. Smooth walnut N frame grips were used on WW I 1917 revolvers.

 

[gordonrick]

D'oh! Is there by chance a "V" in front of the serial number?
Lanyard ring holes can be plugged and sometimes are not so obvious.
If it has a 4" barrel and a "V" you have a Victory model. If no "V" it is a refinished 1919 gun with Victory stocks.
The pre-Victory serial numbers (without the "V") were much higher (starting approx 685000), but "V310xxx" would be a 1943-ish gun.
It would have the made in USA and logo though.

Does it have the large-ish mushroom shaped ejector rod knob like the one in the picture, or a smaller "barrel" shaped knob?

 

[raisedin99]

D'oh! Is there by chance a "V" in front of the serial number?
Lanyard ring holes can be plugged and sometimes are not so obvious.
If it has a 4" barrel and a "V" you have a Victory model
The pre-Victory serial numbers (without the "V") were much higher (staritng approx 685000), but "V310xxx" would be a 1943-ish gun.

Negatory, no prefix letter, but I thank you for bringing that up. That is however what we gave thought to, that it may have been a pre-Victory.

terry

 

[gordonrick]

So a 1919 M&P dressed like a Victory is my best guess without pics. Whatever the case, it is likely a very good shooter and may become a favorite. I love the old ones.