I traded for this little I frame .22/32 at a local show this past weekend. It's a pretty little thing, so much so that I didn't even notice the broken rear sight. I did notice the front sight was modified, but just totally blew it with the rear. It has a notch cut (and a very good job they did of it) in what is left, but no adjustability. The rest of the gun is in excellent condition with just a couple of small blemishes. Blue appears original with no indication of buffing, and has the wrong stocks on it. I took it to the range today to see how bad of a deal I had made. It was just horrible. I couldn't get it to shoot under an inch at ten yards no matter how many eyes I closed. Seriously though, It's a great little shooter and I hope that I can find a rear sight and correct stocks for it. The pic with the 6 shot group was single action at 10 yards, and the other one was 12 shots double action at the same distance.
Pre war .22/32 mistake.
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Green Frog
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Interesting tale. Could it have been one of the non-adjustable Target sighted guns built for Wimbledon? The stocks are definitely non-original for a target model, so I’m struggling to figure out how a non-target HFT even exists. A Zelenskyy in a mystery wrapped in an enigma. Only a letter from Dr Jinks can unravel it.
Froggie
Froggie
Congrats! That's in beautiful condition except for the sights of course, but very fixable. I don't know what value you have in it, but with proper sights and grips in that condition it's a $2500 gun give or take. They made very few of these! Estimates over the years have suggested that 1000-2000 Prewar Kit guns were produced.
You have a Model 1935 .22/32 Kit Gun, 4" barrel. Most of these sold between 1935 and 1942 with a very few sold after WWII. It was replaced by the Model 1953 New I Frame Kit Gun.
Unfortunately the original adjustable rear sight is very hard to find, but not impossible. You might have to buy a 'junker .22/32 Heavy Frame Target (same gun but with a 6" barrel) which were made in far great quantities, to get a rear sight. Can you attach a photo of the rear sight from behind and one from above? Then you can replace the front sight blade which will need to be taller.
Tell us the serial # (or partial) and we can tell you when it sold. Is the serial # on the butt or on the fore strap behind the trigger.
There's three types of original grips these could be ordered with.
This one has the round butt to Square butt extended grips (with serial # on the fore grip) and the "pocket" style front sight blade:
RKmesa photos
With Round butt grips:
Photos by Jim Fisher
The Patridge front sight blade:
Photo by Dan M
Larger target grips with two screws were also available. All of these style grips can be found on this forum and on-line.
You have a Model 1935 .22/32 Kit Gun, 4" barrel. Most of these sold between 1935 and 1942 with a very few sold after WWII. It was replaced by the Model 1953 New I Frame Kit Gun.
Unfortunately the original adjustable rear sight is very hard to find, but not impossible. You might have to buy a 'junker .22/32 Heavy Frame Target (same gun but with a 6" barrel) which were made in far great quantities, to get a rear sight. Can you attach a photo of the rear sight from behind and one from above? Then you can replace the front sight blade which will need to be taller.
Tell us the serial # (or partial) and we can tell you when it sold. Is the serial # on the butt or on the fore strap behind the trigger.
There's three types of original grips these could be ordered with.
This one has the round butt to Square butt extended grips (with serial # on the fore grip) and the "pocket" style front sight blade:
RKmesa photos
With Round butt grips:
Photos by Jim Fisher
The Patridge front sight blade:
Photo by Dan M
Larger target grips with two screws were also available. All of these style grips can be found on this forum and on-line.
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Not a very good picture of the sight. A better view would help folks ID what ya got.
Robert
Robert
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The sights are not factory which are missing. It's a pre war Kit Gun.
Sorry about the crappy phone pics, it doesn't take pictures like it used to. Numbers match (5297XX) on the front strap, the barrel flat and rear face of the cylinder. It is still very tight, like it wasn't used hardly at all. I traded a NIB 4" 48-3 for this and a mint Super Bearcat. Thanks all for your help and insight.
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The fact of the matter is folks, especially the folks here, won't need much help identifying the sight. That's because Bob Neal (He of "Neal & Jinks" fame) and a legion of helpers have already done that---along with identifying damn near every other sight on ("damn near" again) every other (target grade) gun S&W ever made! Then Bob wrote an article about it. The article is titled The Evolution Of Smith & Wesson Target Sights (the ONLY comprehensive treatment of the topic ever done)---------AND there's a complete copy of that article available here on this forum---wherever such things are found---and however such things are found---which is beyond my store of knowledge--thanks to an expert and devoted staff who tended to such irritations on my behalf whenever such was necessary. Alas, my current expert and devoted staff consists of two cats---both of whom are smart enough not to go anywhere near such undertakings!
The article was a PRODIGIOUS undertaking, based upon the size of his research file which now resides in my bookcase. Once you find the article, go to the second installment, that treating with rear sights, and have a look at Designs 16, 17, and 13 (depending on the age of the gun)----------and VIOLA!!
All that's the easy part! Next comes what I suspect will be the daunting task of finding such a sight-----or even a donor gun. I say "daunting" based upon my 60 some odd years of tromping around here there and yonder looking on tables and under rocks for S&W target guns. Every once in awhile, I came across a pre-war Kit Gun----not often, but every once in awhile----pretty little things. One thing I did look at was the sights---of course having become a collector of target guns, one becomes a sight junkie---pretty much automatically-----and he ALWAYS looks at the sights!!
And speaking of here there and yonder, I recall going to the Las Vegas Winter Show NINE years in a row---and ending up with ONE gun to show for it! THAT borders on embarrassing!! Actually, it doesn't border on anything besides the fact I must be a slow learner!
It occurs to me you'll have better luck finding the article than the sight.
Ralph Tremaine
And having now looked at the recent pictures, the sight looks to be what once was Design 13. And given that educated guess, it can be confirmed by removing the sight assembly (assuming it, in its current state, can be removed) to confirm the presence of a horizontal slot milled in the frame (where there was, once upon a time, a flanged elevation adjusting screw with its flange riding in the slot). Needless to say, one MUST have that screw in order for a replacement sight to function---------or be VERY GOOD friends with the folks at a VERY GOOD machine shop to make such a little beast---at what might very well be a cost exceeding the cost of the gun. (!!)
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I can’t imagine the cost of making that tiny, tiny sight screw, or even how it was done. Anyone have any ideas as to how micro-screws are manufactured?
And, the problem with the rear sight obtained from a .22/32 HFT donor gun is that it’s a shame to turn such a revolver into a donor, although the occasional one dies exist. And, it will forever be correct for the donor revolver and incorrect for your revolver, as the underside of the rear sight IS serial numbered.
And, the problem with the rear sight obtained from a .22/32 HFT donor gun is that it’s a shame to turn such a revolver into a donor, although the occasional one dies exist. And, it will forever be correct for the donor revolver and incorrect for your revolver, as the underside of the rear sight IS serial numbered.
Small screw machine, designed especially for that purpose. They might make hundreds of screws per hour.
What is a Davenport automatic screw machine??? - YouTube
Robert
Looks to be----#13 was the first one where you can see the screw----without looking through a little hole.
RCT
RCT
What is the full serial number? I only have one starting with 5297xx in my database. From the photos I can not see the rear sight damage but that could either be my bad eyes or small laptop monitor.
Either way guns around that range appear to have shipped in 1936 and 1937 with the majority in early 1937. If it is the one that I have in my database then it has an "interesting" destination.
As far as the stocks are concerned, my database lists 2 screw extension stocks with silver medallions, regulation police style with silver medallions and IIRC one could also get the black plastic/hard rubber style if so ordered.
For those owning examples of the .22/32 HFT's with 6" barrels, I bought one missing the rear sight blade and one missing the Paine front sight blade. I was able to purchase replacements from a forum member but I believe that he sold his inventory to one of the large parts suppliers. Should still be available because the parts he had numbered in the hundreds. These were NOS that someone had salvaged from the S&W factory.
Either way guns around that range appear to have shipped in 1936 and 1937 with the majority in early 1937. If it is the one that I have in my database then it has an "interesting" destination.
As far as the stocks are concerned, my database lists 2 screw extension stocks with silver medallions, regulation police style with silver medallions and IIRC one could also get the black plastic/hard rubber style if so ordered.
For those owning examples of the .22/32 HFT's with 6" barrels, I bought one missing the rear sight blade and one missing the Paine front sight blade. I was able to purchase replacements from a forum member but I believe that he sold his inventory to one of the large parts suppliers. Should still be available because the parts he had numbered in the hundreds. These were NOS that someone had salvaged from the S&W factory.
Green Frog
Member
Imagine how many millions of them were made for pocket watches back then. You can bet they had an economical way to do it on tools based on what we now call “watchmaker’s lathes”.
There was a big market for them in those days.
Looks like the original sight broke in two pieces and the front half was salvaged to make a rudimentary substitute. At least you have the part with the matching serial number stamped on the underside.
What a shame. These days it could have been micro welded back together and reblued. That’s what I would do if I found a replacement sight; graft the rear part of the replacement to your original front half.
What a shame. These days it could have been micro welded back together and reblued. That’s what I would do if I found a replacement sight; graft the rear part of the replacement to your original front half.
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That is strange! I do not think the rear sight was broken. A lick hard enough to break the sight at that location would almost certainly have marred the frame. It almost seems someone wanted to turn the gun into a low profile fixed sight gun.
In the for what it's worth department, the same sight will be found on all target grade guns of the same frame size of the same era. Occasional exceptions will occur during periods of transition---from one sight design to another.
Ralph Tremaine
Ralph Tremaine
I think Lee nailed it. My guess would be that is why the front sight was modified as it was.
I like it !!
Tim
I like it !!
Tim
Good thoughts, I can’t disagree, that is more likely. Albeit no way I can see to adjust for windage except filing one side of the rear notch. Or another thought (wild guess), the windage screws were cross threaded, otherwise damaged or lost.
I was thinking weld onto original remainder. In close-up, it looks like rear of frame under sight has been rounded also. Still neat gun!
You’re right, I can also see some additional contouring of the frame, and looks like it was cold blued.
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