Pre WWI Hand ejector?

[drayks]

I recently came into possession of an early S&W revolver. It is what appears to be a hand ejector in 38 S&W Special caliber, has a 6 1/2" barrel, fixed rear sight slot, has 5 screws on the side frame and has Serial Number 842XX on the bottom of the square frame with no lanyard. Can anyone help identify what year it was manufactured and any other pertinent facts about it? Thanks in advance. drayks

 

[murphydog]

Welcome! You most likely have a .38 Military & Police revolver from about 1907. Its value is dependent on condition so photos would help here.

If you use the Search function, type .38 Military & Police in the Search Site/Google Custom Search text box when you have a spare 12 hours or so for reading...

 

[mikepriwer]

According to the 1907 - 1908 catalog, which also applies to the 1905 - 1906
catalog, if the gun has a round butt, then it is a 38 Military Model 1902. If it has
a square butt, then it is a 38 Military Model 1905. The 38 Military & Police designation
came some years later.

There you have it. I've saved you 12 hours or so for reading !

Regards, Mike Priwer

 

[drayks]

Thank you for the quick responses. The gun belonged to my wife's grandfather and we know he served in France during WWI, but do not know when he acquired it.

 

[DWalt]

With that SN, it's very likely from 1906-07 period as previously stated. If you decide to shoot it, you should use only standard velocity .38 Special loads having lead bullets. No +P loads or anything with jacketed bullets.

 

[drayks]

I was mistaken in the square butt, someone had made a set of grip panels that completely covered the metal frame, and after removing them, now realize that the revolver is a round butt which makes it a 38 Military Model of 1902, looks just like the illustration that was posted. Any idea where I can get a set of grip panels that will fit a 109 year old gun? Again, thanks. drayks

 

[Muley Gil]

Welcome to the Forum.

Post an ad in the Wanted to Buy section of our Classifieds. You are looking for hard rubber pre WW II K frame round butt grips.

 

[DWalt]

Welcome to the Forum.

Post an ad in the Wanted to Buy section of our Classifieds. You are looking for hard rubber pre WW II K frame round butt grips.

Also look on eBay, and the gun auction sites. There are also replica grips available.

 

[mikepriwer]

The correct grips would be hard-rubber, or checkered concave walnut (meaning a
slight concavity where the medallion would later be). Any K-frame hard rubber grips
would be acceptable, even all the way up to 1940. They were always the same, which
is why they are not too hard to find.

Mike Priwer

 

[Chukar60]

If you decide to go with the concave wood stocks, be patient. They are scarce, but decent examples do come up for sale from time to time.
It took me a little over 6 months to locate my set. Well worth the wait.

 

[drayks]

Original Rubber Grips

After going through old potpourri box, did find the ORIGINAL rubber grip panels for the revolver. Know they are original because one of them has the serial number hand engraved on one of the panels. They are in virgin shape--must have been taken off early in the revolver life usage. I did buy bunch of lead bullets to make up softball loads, and bought a Model 14 in 38 and a Model 66 in 357 to spare the old gun some abuse.

 

[murphydog]

Thanks for coming back and updating! Merry Christmas!

 

[Muley Gil]

After going through old potpourri box, did find the ORIGINAL rubber grip panels for the revolver. Know they are original because one of them has the serial number hand engraved on one of the panels. They are in virgin shape--must have been taken off early in the revolver life usage. I did buy bunch of lead bullets to make up softball loads, and bought a Model 14 in 38 and a Model 66 in 357 to spare the old gun some abuse.

THAT is a lucky find!!!

 

[pasound]

I have a 1913, same specifications, in factory nickel and square butt. The stocks are wood with the recessed logo button. These are handsome examples of the gunsmith's art.

 

[larryofcc]

According to the 1907 - 1908 catalog, which also applies to the 1905 - 1906
catalog, if the gun has a round butt, then it is a 38 Military Model 1902. If it has
a square butt, then it is a 38 Military Model 1905. The 38 Military & Police designation
came some years later.

There you have it. I've saved you 12 hours or so for reading !

Regards, Mike Priwer

Here you go Mike. A little later gun, but a match for the top gun in the picture. Big Larry

 

[Muley Gil]

I have a 1913, same specifications, in factory nickel and square butt. The stocks are wood with the recessed logo button. These are handsome examples of the gunsmith's art.

S&W used the gold medallions from 1910 to 1920.

 

[rct269]

Speaking of "softball loads", there's not a thing wrong with them, but all this scary talk about the perils of using +P ammo in old guns is just that----scary talk.

Once up on a time (1925 for instance because I have data for 1925), .38 Special ammo came out of the end of the barrel at 858 fps. Then, at some point I don't know, they downloaded it to 755 fps---as it is today. I also don't know why they did that, maybe so they could bump it back up, give it a catchy name like +P, and charge more for it-----probably seemed like a good idea at the time. So anyhow, that's what they did. Today's +P load (for the same load (that with the 158 grain bullet) comes out at a whopping 890 fps----pretty scary, huh?

Now there are other +P loads that come out at 1175 fps, but they managed that by using a 95 grain bullet----pretty sneaky, huh, but is it scary? I don't think so!

Maybe if we talk about fishing tackle for a bit all this will become enlightening. Most folks will tell you fishing tackle is made to catch fish. I'm thinking fishing tackle is made to sell to fishermen. I'm also thinking +P ammo is made to sell to folks who haven't thought through all this---and it's made to sell at a higher price too-----right?

Oh, and then we now have "new and improved" guns for you to spend money on---those "Rated for +P".

How about this for real life in the big city? If any ammo company came out with any load that damaged any gun ever made for the cartridge, and it damaged the gun and or the shooter, those ammo company folks are going to end up standing in front of a judge listening to him telling them how many gazillions of dollars they're going to have to pay the damaged parties for their callous disregard of the well being of their fellow man. Needless to say, the attorneys for the damaged parties are going to get their 30-40% too----'cause that's how they make their living---and it's a good bet the ammo company folks know all this because their Mommas didn't raise no dumb kids!!

Ralph Tremaine

 

[DWalt]

In the early 1930s, .38 Special cartridges that produced MVs around 1150 ft/sec with 158 grain bullets appeared. Peak chamber pressures were over 25Kpsi. Those were somewhat hotter loads than today's +P loads. I do not remember their causing any early revolvers to turn into hand grenades.

 

[pasound]

It seems that the 38/44 loads drifted over to the 38's, (or vice-versa) and not a lot of problems ensued, at least what I've read about. I will not shoot "hot loads" in my antique S&W's. Probably not heat treated, and I'm not going to find out just to shoot hot loads in them. 148gr WC's and 158gr SWC's for them, only, and at standard velocities and pressures.

 

[hkcavalier]

There's a post on ARFCOM with an early .38 Colt with its forcing cone blown apart. Probably from .357s since the bored-through cylinders would accommodate the round. Never seen a S&W like that from shooting +Ps.

There are a lots of unwise chamberings out there. I don't think +Ps in a .38 in good working order are among them.