Primer Leakage

[Texas Roots]

I'm having problems with gas leaks around primers in .357 Mag. handloads.

Primers are Remington Small Pistol (not magnum primers). Brass is brand new Remington .357.
Load is the Lyman #358156 Gas Checked bullet over 13.5 grains of 2400. I don't seem to have this problem with any other combination of components. The leaks occurr in any of the three S&W .357 Magnums that I shoot this particular combination in.

Leakage is apparant by looking at the case heads; black smudges can be seen at the seam between the brass and primer. The primers are not being pierced by the firing pin.

I don't think the bullet or the powder is a problem nor are there any signs of excess pressure. Primers are not backing out; primers are not cratered; extraction of fired cases is very easy, cases nearly fall out of the guns.

The leaks occurr in 3 or 4 out of 10 rounds and actually cut tiny bits of metal out of the bushing that is pressed into the recoil shield; you can actually see tiny poc marks in the bushings of all three of my S&W's.

I use a Hornady handheld priming tool to seat primers and I seat them very firmly into each pocket.

I also load for my S&W and Ruger .44 Specials and Magnums and Ruger .45 Colt; several 1911s, and an S&W Model 25-2. I don't have any problems like this with any of these other handguns.

The problem is pointing to either the Remington brass or the primers as the culprit(s).

Have any of you had similar problems? This has really got me stumped and upset too, that damage has occurred to my fine S&W handguns.

 

[robertrwalsh]

Never had any such problems myself, though I load very little .357 any more. I do load a lot of 10 mm and .41 mag. I sometimes get a little primer cratering if I push the envelope too far, but not blowby around the primer itself. My guesstimate is fairly high pressure combined with poor fit of the primer into the pocket, but that is just a guesstimate, not an informed opinion.

 

[shortrange]

I threw away 500 rounds of Remington 357 brass with the exact same problem. It was purchased new. I had to have 2 guns repaired from this brass. I actually tried different primers which was a mistake, as the primers were never the problem. Do yourself a favor and throw away the Remington brass (or give to someone you hate) and buy yourself some Starline brass and be done with the problem.

 

[Texas Roots]

shortrange, thanks a million Sir,

You don't know how long it's taken to get some sort of answer to this problem.

I've had this problem off and on for years and have never been quite sure exactly what the heck was going on or which components were at fault or if it was something I was doing wrong or if there was a problem with my primer tool.

This time though, with the problem showing up while using brand new Remington brass and it happening, I was almost sure that had to be it.

Thank you very much for confirming my suspicion.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

This is good to know, I'll steer clear of Remington .357 brass from now on. Thanks for posting this thread...

 

[Jswiney9]

guy at work had the exact same problem from the remington brass, tried about 3 different primers before he figured it out.

 

[Texas Roots]

Jswiney9, and thank you as well, for your input. More confirmation of this problem always helps.

And giving this problem some afterthought, I just wonder what is the root problem with the Remington brass.

 

[n4zov]

Not to be argumentative but I've used .357 Remington brass and primers exclusively for years and have never had a single problem! I have not bought any brass in recent years, so maybe R-P quality control has slipped? I was also interested in your statement:

"I've had this problem off and on for years and have never been quite sure exactly what the heck was going on or which components were at fault or if it was something I was doing wrong or if there was a problem with my primer tool."

Were you using R-P brass and primers all that time or something else? Also, do you have this problem with other cartridges?

 

[thomashoward]

Not to be argumentative but I've used .357 Remington brass and primers exclusively for years and have never had a single problem! I have not bought any brass in recent years, so maybe R-P quality control has slipped? I was also interested in your statement:

"I've had this problem off and on for years and have never been quite sure exactly what the heck was going on or which components were at fault or if it was something I was doing wrong or if there was a problem with my primer tool."

Were you using R-P brass and primers all that time or something else? Also, do you have this problem with other cartridges?

[ so maybe R-P quality control has slipped? ]
Bingo. I just sent a varmint rifle back to Remington that had the worst job done to the rifling I have ever seen. Looked like a fuzz-stick. They said it was within their standards. I think this new ownership group is just a bunch of bean counters. For handgun brass I generally use Federal,I do use Rem 7 1/2 primers in my varmints.

 

[Texas Roots]

n4zov, as stated in my original post, no, I've never had these problems with all the other cartridges I load; .44 Sp. and Magnum, .45 ACP and AR, .45 Colt, .308, and 7x57.

The problems began to show up around YR 2002 and afterward. I was using many different types of brass at the time. I've reloaded for one of my .357's since about 1977 and never had this happen until above said time-frame.

I remember looking at the recoil plate at about that time after a shooting session and noticed the poc marks all over the bushing; that is, the round bushing that is staked into the recoil plate or recoil shield as some call it. So, at the time I discovered the poc marks, I had no idea what was causing them. I did not think to look at my fired brass because, at the time, I had no idea that primer leaks might be the culprit.

So, I can't say with all positive and sure notion, that all the poc marks were caused by only the Remington brass that I was using some 8 years ago. Now, I've had several years to think about this problem and what the root cause might be.

The new Remington brass I purchased recently and loaded up as per my original post definitely shows the signs of leakage. The Winchester and the PMC brass I loaded up with the same load and shot the same day as I shot the loads in the Remington brass, does not show this leakage.

I happened to be shooting the loads (in all different brass including the new Remington brass) in a new to me M27-2 with no poc marks in the bushing. As soon as I noticed the smoky areas around the primers in the Remington brass that I shot, I looked at the recoil plate on the gun, and sure enough, there were some poc marks already started......(damn!!!) So, I stopped shooting the Remington brass loads and continued my shooting with other loads making sure that this did not repeat itself with other brass.

I had no more smoky looking areas around the primers in any other loads (of manufacturers other than Remington) the rest of the day. And to reiterate, I was shooting the same load in all the different brass cases. Only the new Remington brass showed the leakage that day.

So, for now, I'll not use any more Remington brass, but will keep my eyes out for any leakage that occurrs with other components. I'll report back here if there are any surprises.

 

[canoe on the yukon]

I've not had any problems with Remington brass (so far).I'm not sure that it would only be with 357 mag if it's a quality control issue.

I have a bulk pack of 500 Remington 44 magnum brass that I hoarded away a few years ago and have not used any of them yet.Am curious if there are any similar issues with this brand and other calibers.

I don't remember what year I bought them but it was probably no more than ten years ago (maybe less).

Any feedback?Thanks.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Texas Roots-
I don't know if you read this or not-
http://smith-wessonforum.com/ammo/151886-what-happened-357-rupture.html

 

[okie john]

I've found that sometimes the Remington quality control team has very high standards.


Okie John

 

[Texas Roots]

I began reloading back around 1970 with the .357 Magnum, three-screw Ruger Blackhawk. I remember reloading Remington and Winchester brass back then with nary a problem with primer leakage at that time.

I've shot Remington .44 Mag and .44 Special brass since the mid 1970's with no problems like this either. Began shooting the .45 AR shortly after I bought my first 25-2 in 2004 and have had no primer leakage in that caliber either.

So, I'll have to assume Remington has had some QC problems with .357 brass in more recent times.....I don't plan to use this stuff in .357 Magnum EVER again.

No offense to anyone, but it'll be either Winchester or Starline brass for me from now on in all calibers.

 

[SWID]

I shot 50 rounds of Remington .357 last night with a 28-2, CCI 350 primers and Laser Cast 158 gr. bullets, I don't remember the powder or charge, but it was probably about 14 grains of 2400. I've had the brass for a while and I think it was its second loading.

I had the same problem.

 

[GypsmJim]

When I read the title of the post my first thought was that it must be remington components.

If it has remington on the package, don't buy it. I can't tell you how many times I have had problems, from shorted boxes to split cases to ruptured cases the first time around to brand new ammo that wouldn't go bang 42 out of 50 in the same box.

E-mail them and then send it back. They will want to replace it, so INSIST on a cash refund. Then go buy anything else.

 

[Rule3]

Just to clarify.

This is brass 357 not nickle plated?

Is this newly purchased or some time back in 2002? and now just using it.?

All my brass is mixed so I thought I would sort through it and see if there are any signs of problems. If it is brass you just bought recently I have none of that.

Thanks.

 

[Texas Roots]

OCD1, that's correct; it is brass; not nickle plated.

I'm not completely certain about what brass was causing the problem in the 2001 to 2002 time frame; I was using Remington, Winchester, and I believe Federal at the time. And all that brass was several years old at that time. The poc marks, I believe began showing up sometime around then. I was just not conscious of the problem. It just all of sudden hit me that my Model 19-4 with 6" barrel that I bought used in 1996, and my Model 27-2 with 5" barrel that I bought new in 1976 had poc marks (tiny chunks of metal that had been burned away) in the recoil shield/plate. And I really began to focus in on what was causing it right after I noticed this.

At first (back in 2001 or 2002 when these problems began) I thought my primer tool was at fault and threw the whole thing away and bought another one. Then, I did not shoot my .357s for about three or four years. At some point, after that, I decided to throw most if not all my .357 brass away and buy new brass. That's when I bought the recent batch of Remington brass. I also bought new Winchester brass around the same time period.

So, this newer batch that I just had the most recent trouble with was probably two or three years old, maybe more; but this was the first time it had been fired just this past Friday. I shot it in a new to me Model 27-2 with a 6 1/2" barrel that looked like it had never even been fired. This was when I noticed the poc marks on it showing up and I found the new Remington brass I was shooting had the soot marks around the primers. Man was I upset....

My timing may not all be completely correct but I hope it gives you an idea of what happened.

 

[acl864]

I have mixed lots of 357 brass but there is a fair proportion of R-P headstamp in both brass and nickel. All the R-P I have is acquired from once fired commercial ammo. I've never noticed anything like you are describing. I wonder if the standards for their commercial load components are different than the ones for reloading components?

 

[Rule3]

Thanks Texas.

All my mixed brass is once fired (or more) from the range. I never purchased any new Rem 357 brass. I have purchased Rem 44 mag brass which I still have in the box.

I mostly shoot nickle plated so maybe it is made different.

If it is new brass I would definitely send some to Remington after sending them a e mail. Do not know if they are as responsive as Olin Winchester, but I contacted them over some bad ammo and they jumped right on it.