1/2 hour Millwright rate would be a lot less that $90.
Whether it can be done in 30 minutes or 45 minutes or an hour,projects often get billed at a one hour min. labor.
Problem Paying for simple work
- Thread starter OlTimer
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Whether it can be done in 30 minutes or 45 minutes or an hour,projects often get billed at a one hour min. labor.
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$90 probably breaks down as follows...
- Measuring and transferring hole locations = 1 hour
- Setting up work on drill press (or more likely, vertical mill) = 1 hour
- Drilling and tapping = 10 minutes
- Knowing how and where to drill and tap = priceless
At a reasonable charge-out rate of $75/hour, you are getting a bargain. The know-how is a gift.
- Measuring and transferring hole locations = 1 hour
- Setting up work on drill press (or more likely, vertical mill) = 1 hour
- Drilling and tapping = 10 minutes
- Knowing how and where to drill and tap = priceless
At a reasonable charge-out rate of $75/hour, you are getting a bargain. The know-how is a gift.
I'm a (16 years) retired Machinist, Tool & Die Maker, CAD/CAM Operator, CNC Programmer/Operator, CMM Operator so I have an idea of what's involved in the OP's task and can somewhat sympathize with him.
The first few years of my retirement I was allowed to go back and use the machines for farm equipment, gun, and motorcycle machining projects but policy changed and that came to an end. I actually toyed with the idea of buying a mill and lathe to handle my farm equipment, gun, and motorcycle machining needs and even went to a few auctions but reality set in and I just couldn't justify the expense for no more than I would actually use them.
I do have friends who own machine shops so if I really needed anything I could avail myself of their equipment.
It is somewhat distressing to get these quotes when we know we can do it ourselves but as has been mentioned several times those shops are in BUSINESS to earn a profit. While $90 may seem stiff to those of us who have the skills to do such a simple task the reality is that it's no doubt worth every penny to a business to take on such a small simple job.
It was mentioned about installing adjustable sights on a fixed sight handgun.
Back when I was working a local gun store asked me to do some machine work on 1911s for his customers that he wasn't able to do.
I made a fixture for the slide and bought all the (carbide) endmills, drills, taps, and dovetail cutters to do BoMar rears and Chip McCormich fronts.
It was a time consuming and very stressful task.
I did a number of them for him and don't recall how much I charged but knowing me it wasn't near enough.
I did the sights on my Stainless Delta Elite as well as other modifications and it was my EDC for years.
I guess to me the bottom line to me is that quality machine work is worth every penny if you don't have the skills and resources to do it yourself.
On an aside B-Square used to make a base for the older S&W revolvers that used the front sight screw and locked into the rear notch. I've used one with a 4X scope for checking loads on everything from a 617 to a 629 with no problems. On one of my 625s that had the three screws drilled I also have a B-Square for it.
James
The first few years of my retirement I was allowed to go back and use the machines for farm equipment, gun, and motorcycle machining projects but policy changed and that came to an end. I actually toyed with the idea of buying a mill and lathe to handle my farm equipment, gun, and motorcycle machining needs and even went to a few auctions but reality set in and I just couldn't justify the expense for no more than I would actually use them.
I do have friends who own machine shops so if I really needed anything I could avail myself of their equipment.
It is somewhat distressing to get these quotes when we know we can do it ourselves but as has been mentioned several times those shops are in BUSINESS to earn a profit. While $90 may seem stiff to those of us who have the skills to do such a simple task the reality is that it's no doubt worth every penny to a business to take on such a small simple job.
It was mentioned about installing adjustable sights on a fixed sight handgun.
Back when I was working a local gun store asked me to do some machine work on 1911s for his customers that he wasn't able to do.
I made a fixture for the slide and bought all the (carbide) endmills, drills, taps, and dovetail cutters to do BoMar rears and Chip McCormich fronts.
It was a time consuming and very stressful task.
I did a number of them for him and don't recall how much I charged but knowing me it wasn't near enough.
I did the sights on my Stainless Delta Elite as well as other modifications and it was my EDC for years.
I guess to me the bottom line to me is that quality machine work is worth every penny if you don't have the skills and resources to do it yourself.
On an aside B-Square used to make a base for the older S&W revolvers that used the front sight screw and locked into the rear notch. I've used one with a 4X scope for checking loads on everything from a 617 to a 629 with no problems. On one of my 625s that had the three screws drilled I also have a B-Square for it.
James
Magload
US Veteran
Scope Mounts WEIG-A-TINNY� Weaver Picatinny Style Base at Weigand Combat Handguns, Inc. make mopmts fot K, L, and N frame and X frame that fit in the rear sight mount.
I quit in 92, at that time I was charging $20 a hole D&T for most
guns. I had major bucks tied up in jigs and fixtures. I did a lot
of Shotguns, Muzzle loaders and handguns. They weren't to bad
some of the 98s were hard as glass. What was really a PIA is
when Bubba took his gun down to the corner gas station and
attempted to D/T gun with a drill press that would stir paint with
a 3/4" bit. Then usually snapped off a tap. My favorite were the
guys who D/T a rear sight on shotguns. Even if they got it done
the Chamber pressure would blow the sight off after a few shots.
A guy brought in a 870 Rem that looked like a flute, before he
gave up. People don't realize what tooling cost, they should spend
a little time and leaf through Brownells catalog. Back when I bought mine they cost less, but a dollar was worth a lot more.
Several times after giving people cost upfront, they would go
nuts when it came time to pay. I've even had people tell me to
keep it and stick it, and walk out.
guns. I had major bucks tied up in jigs and fixtures. I did a lot
of Shotguns, Muzzle loaders and handguns. They weren't to bad
some of the 98s were hard as glass. What was really a PIA is
when Bubba took his gun down to the corner gas station and
attempted to D/T gun with a drill press that would stir paint with
a 3/4" bit. Then usually snapped off a tap. My favorite were the
guys who D/T a rear sight on shotguns. Even if they got it done
the Chamber pressure would blow the sight off after a few shots.
A guy brought in a 870 Rem that looked like a flute, before he
gave up. People don't realize what tooling cost, they should spend
a little time and leaf through Brownells catalog. Back when I bought mine they cost less, but a dollar was worth a lot more.
Several times after giving people cost upfront, they would go
nuts when it came time to pay. I've even had people tell me to
keep it and stick it, and walk out.
OP
OlTimer
Member
Place Weaver Rail in place drill mark holes 6 Minutes
Drill 7 Minutes
Tap 11 Minutes
Place Rail install Screws 4 Minutes
My gift was coming from a Family of skilled tradesman working in an environment at GM with Mach, Tool Die, and many other skilled tradesmen, even The Last GM Black Smith, have the tools needed, The point I was trying to Make was the cost to do such a Simple task that i never gave a thought to doing.
I was not making light of what others find hard to do.
There is one thing I try not to do is wash or work on my Cars
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Marking holes with a center punch is slap-dab work, IMO. For precision work I would line everything up and use the indexing table. Perhaps that's why I bought my last GM car 20 years ago. Too much use of drift punches for my taste.
RV4driver
US Veteran
Yep, sorry, what Neumann said. I'll never go back to that slap-dab work.
I'm sure the 6-48 is just as amenable to a center punch as something on a Chebby Silverado.
I'm sure the 6-48 is just as amenable to a center punch as something on a Chebby Silverado.
I hope you never have to go to a doctor. You should see what my proctologist charged for less than 30 seconds of exam work.
OP
OlTimer
Member
Funny how a statement turns to **** I was merely stating my surprise at what was charged for a job that in my opinion is the simplest of work, That is for me and then remarks and song and dance starts, like what Goblin posted, I thought this was more of an adult forum. Thanks to the posters that understood what I meant.
scooter123
Member
Then quit complaining and go ahead and do it. I'll be interested in seeing your complaints about what it cost to have a broken #6-48 tap removed.
OP
OlTimer
Member
First thank you for proving my point about DA remarks It is done .
jessebogan
Member
Just a quick point. I have a small shop outside of DC. I repair and restore Jaguars. It costs 8K a month just to keep the doors open. Rent, electricity phone, insurance gas and water. On top of that is everything else. Before I make a single dollar. My hourly labor rate is a lot higher than it was 10 years back. Most folks get it, those that don't find another place. And believe me, I am not getting rich at it either. As long as any skilled tradesman can do quality work, the price you pay is likely cheap.
You could easily find out if this charge is normal in your area by asking several other area gunsmiths. And remember, he might be charging high to keep from having to deal with bargain shoppers.
Locally, it would be about $60 for new customers, maybe cheaper for regulars.
Jeff
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Locally, it would be about $60 for new customers, maybe cheaper for regulars.
Jeff
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
I also agree with almost all of these responses.
In addition to the costs for the equipment, tools, set up (it is one of the most expensive costs in manufacturing - Six Sigma & TQM), you're also buying the skills, knowledge, and experience of the machinist. IMO, he or she will only have one time through the chute on doing the work correctly the first time. No re-work is permitted. A few microns off and the entire solution and results could change dramatically.
I just finished a time-consuming plumbing project this weekend to correct a problem that was created by someone who probably couldn't qualify for a plumber's license!
In addition to the costs for the equipment, tools, set up (it is one of the most expensive costs in manufacturing - Six Sigma & TQM), you're also buying the skills, knowledge, and experience of the machinist. IMO, he or she will only have one time through the chute on doing the work correctly the first time. No re-work is permitted. A few microns off and the entire solution and results could change dramatically.
I just finished a time-consuming plumbing project this weekend to correct a problem that was created by someone who probably couldn't qualify for a plumber's license!
OP
OlTimer
Member
And I disagree with most of the responses that have blown out of proportion a task as simple as what I have years of experience doing, and the tools to do it. It was an opinion I made. But I enjoyed reading the responses ThankYou.
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