problems with 27-2 with 3 1/2" barrel

[littlerocknroller]

Hello everybody!

I, or better to say a friend of mine, has the following problem. He bought a model 27-2 with 3 1/2 " barrel which was in a collection for many years and has never been fired, apart from proof firing which ist a MUST in Germany. There are absolutely no traces of any firing and the gun looks really pretty. When shooting the first time my friend detected that, I call them chamber 5 and chamber 6, are nearly impossible to fire in DA mode. Chamber 5 requires a somewhat harder hammer pull and chamber 6 a very very hard hammer pull. Even in SA mode the hammer pull is very hard. As the gun is intended for fast DA shooting this is not acceptable. It only happens with carefully and full sized brass. Factory ammo works, but even then the rim of the cartridge is not fully enclosed by the chamber. The same reloaded ammo works perfect in my two 27-2, one nickel and one in blue. We think that the two chambers with problems are not deep enough so that there is no headspace left. Is this a known problem with 27-2? Have there any dash 3 been made with the short tube? And no - there is no powder residue behind the ejector star which happens from time to time when loading sticky powder. I have a lot of model 27-2 with different barrel length up to 8 1/2". The long tube is with S S/N and in ncikel!
Any help or change of information would be highly appreciated.
Thanks and have a great weekend (and find some cheap primers). Expensive and hard to find here, too.

 

[callahan44er]

Hi i am the friend from littlerocknroller. Tank you for help

 

[Protocall_Design]

First off, if the hammer is hard to cock, or the trigger hard to pull, stop. You could damage the ratchet or the hand. As we say in the machine shop - Don't force it! Just get a bigger hammer.

Does the gun cycle OK with no ammo in it? If so, you might take it to a local revolver guy and have him run a chamber reamer in each chamber. If any are short, they will be fixed.

Does it still do the same with no ammo? If so, it could be an endshake problem with the front of the cylinder rubbing the back of the barrel. Some cylinders are not cut square and then the cylinder gap goes wider and narrower as the cylinder rotates.

It could be something else, but these seem the most likely things to look at from halfway around the world.

 

[BRush]

Good input from P Design. I would first try 38 Special ammo, a shorter case to see if the problem exists. If it does it’s not a case seating problem, but probably a head seating problem. Either the head extends slightly from the rear of the cylinder or the cylinder is not squarely faced, as PD suggests.

If you have not already done so, you should first vigoursly clean and brush the cylinder. It is essentially a new gun and should have been factory delivered without this problem. So it is likely the problem’s cause occurred during its long period of non-use. From experience I know this is often because of accumulated smut, dry oil, dust, etc.

 

[callahan44er]

First off, if the hammer is hard to cock, or the trigger hard to pull, stop. You could damage the ratchet or the hand. As we say in the machine shop - Don't force it! Just get a bigger hammer.

Does the gun cycle OK with no ammo in it? If so, you might take it to a local revolver guy and have him run a chamber reamer in each chamber. If any are short, they will be fixed.

Does it still do the same with no ammo? If so, it could be an endshake problem with the front of the cylinder rubbing the back of the barrel. Some cylinders are not cut square and then the cylinder gap goes wider and narrower as the cylinder rotates.

It could be something else, but these seem the most likely things to look at from halfway around the world.

Both always by the same chambers.

Without ammo is the cycle ok.

The problem is with .38 too.

See the picture. When i roateted the ammo in the chamber a 1/4 revolution fits the ammo.

By this picture it is extreamly. By other ammos it is slighty less.

 

[Protocall_Design]

Sounds like the counterbore holes need to be bigger for some rim clearance.

 

[littlerocknroller]

I think it is a problem with the counterbore holes. The front of the cylinder is absolutely square and has no contact with the rear of the barrel. I had this problem with one of my 27s. There is no endshake at all and the timing is perfect so that it is no problem of the hand/ratchet. Maybe to take the bigger hammer may help (to push the cartridge into the chamber). haha
Thanks for your help!

 

[jimmyj]

1. Have you cleaned behind the ratchet
2. Have you checked the interior of the sideplate for dirt / dried oil
3. Is the firing pin housing flush with the recoil plate.

 

[Hondo44]

Put a cartridge into the chamber backwards (rim first) to determine if the case rim fully seats into the chamber recess.

I see that the cases are GFI. I don't use those any longer. Their dimensions are not consistent. You may have some cases with rims that are out of round or over size. If you want to reload them, spin them in a power drill and file the rims down slightly under size.

 

[callahan44er]

1. Have you cleaned behind the ratchet
2. Have you checked the interior of the sideplate for dirt / dried oil
3. Is the firing pin housing flush with the recoil plate.

3x yes yes yes

 

[callahan44er]

Put a cartridge into the chamber backwards (rim first) to determine if the case rim fully seats into the chamber recess.

I see that the cases are GFI. I don't use those any longer. Their dimensions are not consistent. You may have some cases with rims that are out of round or over size. If you want to reload them, spin them in a power drill and file the rims down slightly under size.

1. Its a little higher, but not by all cartridges.

2. The GFL are fits in the other four chambers and in the other M27 -2

 

[Hondo44]

Then the gun must have two problem chambers; the counterbore is not concentric to the chamber bore. Or just under size counterbores. Check the diameter with a caliper.

 

[littlerocknroller]

27-2 with 3 1/2" barrel

Thank you for all your helpful answers and recommendations. We have practically checked everything you mentioned and finally sent the gun to a competent gunsmith to ream the chambers deep enough.
There is still my question: Are there any 27-3 with the 3 1/2" barrel? My Standard Catalog does not give me an answer. Maybe somebody of the community knows more. Thank you all.
Rainer

 

[jimmyj]

Yoke or ejector rod bent ??

 

[Kansasgunner]

According to the Standard Catalog 4th Edition, 3.5” & 5” barrels discontinued in 1979 (page 229). 27-3 introduced in 1982.
I hope this helps.

 

[2152hq]

By this picture it is extreamly. By other ammos it is slighty less.

In this pic,
Looking at the surface of the Star/Ejector betw the chamber with the cart sitting high,,,and the next chamber to the right of it...

The surface of the ejector looks to be scared or has been rubbing against the frame(?).

Maybe it's just the pic and lighting,,it's easier to see if you enlarge the pic.

Maybe a slightly bent ejector star at that point..That would hold the cart head slightly higher and jam it against the recoil plate of the frame making for rough cycling.

But the OP says it cycles easily w/o any cartridges in the cyclinder.
So why would the ejector scrape marks be there if it doesn't touch the frame?
May it does but very lightly.
Or maybe it had a more serious bend/damage at some point and did scrape puting the marks there.
Then the bend was flattened so it cycles cleanly w/o ammo in place.
But no one ever tried it w/ real cartridges to find that it's still slightly bent upwards a small amt holding the rim(s) high.

Just a guess of course. All about those marks I see and if they are in fact scrape marks

 

[callahan44er]

Hi,
end of the story. The Revolver is return to sender! I have the same model a few days later from a friend of Littlerocknroller, he is a collector too, bought. There is no problem. Additional costs in Germany for Gouvernment are 100€......stuff happens ;-)