Problems with S&W 15R upper

[pirate]

I purchased a new S&W M&P 15R upper (5.45x39) a few weeks ago. Completed a build with this upper using a Spikes Tactical lower. It turned out very nicely I think. Before I get into the issue with this upper let me state that I am a loyal S&W owner and big fan of their products of which I own 6 handguns along with this upper. So this is in no way a "bash" against S&W. I am also a very experienced AR shooter and have built "assembled" several rifles over the years.

The first time out with the rifle (upper and complete rifle thoroughly cleaned and lubed) a round (Russian span can ammo) steel cased jammed in the breech and the bolt was locked up tight and would not budge. This was after about 70 rounds (no issues to that point). I took the rifle home and removed the upper after first trying every trick (including mortaring) the rifle to get the bolt to unlock. NO GO…I worked on it for a couple hours at my bench and came to the conclusion that taking the barrel off was the only way to "fix" this problem. But since its a brand new upper I decided to ship it back to S&W. Which I did and they picked up shipping it back on their dime, very good. OK, we all know things happen when you own as many firearms as I do, its part of the "joys" of ownership from time to time. The upper came back to me in about 10 days. With the upper was no paper work stating what repairs were done to the upper......nothing, zero on the order sheet..... I contacted Paul by e mail at S&W who I had been corresponding with earlier and who handled the return of the upper. I asked him to please find out what repairs or parts if any were replaced.

My first e mail:
Hi Paul
I received my S&W M&P15R (5.45x39) upper today that I had sent in. The enclosed order sheet did not have any explanation of what repairs were made to the upper. Can you let me know specifically what work was performed?

Had no response for 5 days so I e mailed him again:
Hi Paul,
Have you been able to get any info on this issue for me? I have been reading other reports on the S&W and AR15 forums (I am a member and moderator) of other owners with similar problems with the S&W M&P15R and I am concerned about this and what steps can be done/tried to prevent bolt lockup. Can you please get back to me on this issue.

Thanks for your help

Paul got back to me that day, his response:
We have made changes to the design to help with this, yours was gone through. The 5.45 caliber does not have a good grade of ammo to pick from for optimal functioning.

My response to his e mail:
Paul,
Thanks for the response but I need more details please. I am a very experienced AR shooter in general and I understand that steel cased ammo may be part of the issue but almost everyone including myself who buys this AR or upper in 5.45x39 buys it to shoot the less expensive ammo. That's the whole point of the 5.45x39 caliber as you know. Please let me know what exact repairs or modification were made to my individual upper. A lot of owners of the 5.45x39 rifles or uppers are concerned about this and want to know what S&W is doing concerning this issue. Please give me as much detail as possible.

Pauls e mail response:
We changed out the barrel to correct the issue.

My response to this e mail:
Paul,
I do not believe the barrel was changed out. I had replaced the OEM flash hidder on this barrel and the barrel has the same useage marks (scuffs) on the barrel. The barrel sent back to me also had excess fouling from the 70 rounds of Russian Steel case ammo I fired in the upper before this issue happened. This barrel was not replaced IMO.

Please call me at xxx-xxx-xxxx to discuss this issue.

Thanks


So, where to go form here....I guess I will move up the management ladder a rung or two and see if I can get some answers, which is all I am looking for here. I just want a safe rifle. I have several others AR's but I wanted the 5.45x39 caliber option. These rifles/upper in 5.45x39 where made to use the inexpensive steel cased ammo and that's how S&W advertised these rifles. Some other M&P15r owners on the AR15.com site have had this same issue it seems and also are looking for S&W to come clean about this issue. I do have to say I am a bit perplexed at this point but I will just keep going forward looking for a legit and helpful response on this issue. I don't think thats asking to much.

 

[arizona98tj]

It seems that S&W uses the same vague verbiage when they do work on the 15-22s that get returned for OOB firing and other issues. They reply with something along the lines of "upgraded to current specifications" if I remember correctly. You then guess what pieces and parts were changed based on visual observation, just like you did with the barrel on your upper.

I've no idea why this is their preferred method of communication....and in your case with the barrel, something other than a truthful response.

 

[LVSteve]

Standard US company control freak policy these days. Admit nothing when you are wrong, even when CNN has told every man and his dog you are wrong. Deny, obfuscate, smear and cover up are all integral parts of the current US business model.

 

[WildWildWest]

I had a similar problem with one of the .223 russian rounds, third shot the round jumped above the bolt and got stuck almost vertically. This was a magazine issue for me, decided to try a hicap metal mag (45rnds) that was laying around, no other problems with the ammo after 200rnds in 15T, all used it in a RRA with no problems. Very accurate stuff for $189 for 1k rounds.

 

[pirate]

The saga continues today, Here is the e mail I recieved from Paul at S&W today.

"Jim, what zip code did that come in from, I am tiring to find the paperwork. I spoke to the repair man, he said he did not have to many of those lately and remembered changing out the barrel on the last one he worked on. I looked under zip code XXXXX but did not see an entry under your name".




If the work performed on this upper is as poor and incompetent as the customer service thus far I think I will be putting my life on the line to shoot this rifle now. Fortunately removing and replacing an AR barrel is not rocket science. So I guess its safe to shoot at this point. We will see I guess, wish me luck!

 

[Tbat]

Hope it works out for you, I have a complete MP15R with about a thousand rounds through it, with no problems to date. I haven't shot any surplus through it, just Wolf and the Monarch brand sold by Academy.

 

[John in SE Indiana]

I've put many, many rounds of Bulgarian and Russian spam can surplus through my M&P15R with no issues.

Surprising to hear about your issues with S&W tech service. I've had some correspondence with Paul, and he's been very helpful on more than one occasion.

Good luck with your rifle.

 

[MnP4me]

I'm new guy looking around the forum and low and behold, Pirate's experience with S&W customer no-service is identical to mine. Shocker!!!

I've already got a thread and ???

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-long-guns/149978-have-m-p15-5-56-moe-questions.html

I was told the malfunctioning bolt/extractor was replaced and it was NOT. Now I suspect I'm in endless wait mode on a shipping label. Plus, at this point I don't know whether to even trust them with the repair.

 

[Nathan Forrest]

Mine will sometimes fail to extract.. The bolt will come back with the extractor not gripping the case. This doesn't happen until I get up to about 75 rounds thru it. I'm guessing its the coating from the 1976 russian ammo gumming up the chamber. The AK 74 extractor is about twice the width of the ARs and the AK bolt system rotates much more than the AR helping to pry out the empty case.

 

[minconrevo]

I have maybe 3000 rounds through my M&P15R. Most were milsurp 53 gr corrosive primed. All ran fine, except for maybe 1 dead primer. Early on I had problems with Wolf 70 gr non-corrosive. Loaded rounds would not easily eject from the chamber. Problem turned out to be spec issues between lots of that ammo. The 70 gr bullet is long and a "fat" ogive can cause the stuck phenomenon in a tight chamber. No problem for a stock AK74 chamber, with its usually loose tolerances.