Problems with Starline 380 brass

[Vortec MAX]

I bought 1,000 Starline cases a while back. I just took 100 out tonight to prep for some handloads. Sizing went fine, but during the next step where I expand the mouth, I kept buckling the cases.

Has anyone had this issue with Starline 380 brass?

I am using the late model RCBS dies with the stepped expander.

I prepped a bunch of once fired stuff (Winchester, Remington, and CCI) and did not have this issue. The only thing I can think of is the Starline cases are either thinner or softer.

I love Starline by the way, so it hurts my feelings to even complain about this. I tried it with two different lots (I had an older bag of 100) and got the same results.

Anyone?

Mike

 

[picketpin]

I just started re-loading for a CW380, and ordered some starline brass. I started with some Lyman .380 dies with the "M" expander die and was having problems with the cases bulging before the mouth of the case was expanded enough to get a bullet seated. I pulled the expander die out of my RCBS 9mm die set and it has worked fine for me, expanding case mouths to accept bullets without difficulty and no crimped or bulged or crinkled cases.. I am how ever suffering from too much crimp for the Kahr, I keep backing off on the crimp die but I had some FTFire / light strikes due to the cartridge seating in the barrel to deep today, other than this learning curve in the .380 I love the little Kahr. It has been completely reliable with factory loads since the first rounds to now......
So, maybe polish the expander plug some?? My 9mm expander die has seen many many thousands of rounds making the expander very smooth. Good luck, seems the .380b is a round that might keep us re-loaders on our toes a little bit more...
james

 

[Rule3]

It is not a problem with the brass. Try adjusting you expander die

 

[Vortec MAX]

It is not a problem with the brass. Try adjusting you expander die

I tried that. I backed it out 1/4 turn at a time until it no longer buckled the case. Then I could not start the bullet. The bigger (stepped) portion of the expander had not entered the case at this point and so it had not enlarged the mouth. The "step" is what is putting the pressure on the case to buckle it.

Like I said, Starline is the only brand I am having this issue with.

A pic of the expander plug is attached. The plug on the left is the one I am using. It is the new "stepped" style expander. The plug on the right is the old style (unstepped) expander.

For reference, the diameter of the expander at the stepped portion is .357".

Mike

 

[rwsmith]

We had a thread...

We had a thread going about some .357 brass from Starline that was excessively hard to size with extremely tight primer pockets. Other people had similar problems. Starlline is top flight brass, but it seems over the last year they've somewhat lost their grasp on quality control, probably due to the extremely heavy demand. I've never had a problem with it before and was very pleased with it and tried to buy it before any other brand.

 

[Vortec MAX]

OK, I messed around with this some more. I was able to get a good compromise where the stepped portion enters the mouth about .03" and slightly bulges the case. It is not too bad and still fits in my Wilson Max Pistol Gage (although slightly sticky). I can get a bullet to sit straight on top of the case with this amount of expansion.

I think my LEE Factory Crimp Die will iron out the bulge when I crimp. I will try a few and let you know.

Mike

 

[OKFC05]

Chamfering the inside of the case mouth usually helps with first-time loading by removing the sharp edge and minute burrs left from manufacturing.

 

[Rule3]

This ^^^^^

 

[Vortec MAX]

I will try that on the next batch of 100 I do. I completed the initial 100 last night. I think they will be fine once I run them through the FCD. I am pretty sure the carbide ring in that die will iron the bulges out. The way I have the expander set now, it barely bulges the cases, but it still does. Chamfering might allow the "step" to enter the case with less resistance. It is worth a try.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Mike

 

[Rule3]

I will try that on the next batch of 100 I do. I completed the initial 100 last night. I think they will be fine once I run them through the FCD. I am pretty sure the carbide ring in that die will iron the bulges out. The way I have the expander set now, it barely bulges the cases, but it still does. Chamfering might allow the "step" to enter the case with less resistance. It is worth a try.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Mike

I guess I do not understand "bulges"?? You were talking about the expander or flaring die right?

It should flare just a tiny bit to let the bullet start into the case. More than that and you are over flaring and will weaken the case mouth and have more to taper crimp back in.

As OKF stated new brass should be chamfered. I have only bought a few calibers like 45 Colt and sized and chamfered those, Do it on all rifles calibers.

DUH, I finally dawn on me that we are talk 380 brass here.

I have crushed lots of those on sizing them, They are very thin and easy to bugger up.

 

[Vortec MAX]

I guess I do not understand "bulges"?? You were talking about the expander or flaring die right?

Buckling slightly, creating a bulge around the case, is the most accurate way to describe it. You can see it in the pictures above. It seems to occur just below the depth that the narrower part of the expander stops inside the case.

I think it is being caused by the downward pressure from the stepped portion of the expander being forced into the top of the case.

Mike

 

[Rule3]

What about the old plug. Does it do the same thing? It only has to enter the case a tiny way to flair the mouth.

Chamfer the brass, you may want to take tome wet dry paper check the expander in a drill and just polish it a little. No major metal removal!. I would also try a little spray lube on the brass,

Other than that I would call RCBS and perhaps send them some of the new brass and the plug and have them fix it or exchange it,

 

[njl]

I load .380 on a Dillon press using Dillon dies, and occasionally have had .380 range pickup brass buckle when the powder funnel tries to flare them. I haven't tried any "new" brass.

 

[scooter123]

You may not want to do it but one solution to your issue is to use a tiny bit of case lube on the neck of the case.

I clean my brass with stainless steel pins and have found that exceedingly clean brass tends "stick" to a flaring plug like it's been Chinese Handcuffed. So I've starting taking my RCBS Case lube pad and pressing the pad on top of a tray of cases. Just a little dab makes a world of difference. BTW, because of this step I now wait until after my cases are sized and flared before cleaning them. I also now saze the cases AFTER that application of a tiny bit of lube to the neck of my handgun cases, it makes sizing and flaring a LOT easier on the arm.

 

[george_lehr]

I had a problem with new Starline brass sticking on the expander die. The press was noticeably difficult to operate on the backstroke where the die is pulled out from the case.
My fix was to tumble/polish the new brass first and it solved the problem. I guessed that there was some residue left inside the case from the manufacturing process.
George

 

[05CarbonDRZ]

I had the same problem with new Starline .45LC Brass,It was EXTREMELY hard to work the press when removing the brass from the expander Die.The only thing that fixed it was lubing the inside lip of the case....What a PITA!

Starline even mentions this problem on their website,Why not fix the problem if You know about it? No other new Brass does this! Their quality control has been slipping along with most other Gun related manufacturers due to the buying frenzy.They are just pumping out Product as fast as possible with little concern for quality.

 

[Dale53]

My understanding is that Starline brass is SO clean that it increases friction to the point that problems develop. The fix is quite simple - just tumble in used tumbling media for an hour or so.

It works for me...

FWIW
Dale53

 

[S&WIowegan]

It is wrong to suggest that Starline brass isn't maintaining quality. I encountered this problem over 20 yrs. ago with brand new Starline 40 S&W brass. The brass would stick on the Dillon expander/powder drop funnel HARD! The solution is very straight forward once you understand what's going on. I use Hornady One-Shot spray lube very lightly to lube the inside of the case mouths. The lube doesn''t affect powder or bullet and the crimp still holds. After one usage, the brass seems to have been worked enough that the problem is gone.

I repeat...this is not a quality issue. If anything it's the very high quality that causes the difficulty. The brass is super clean and possibly a little harder than others. The pay-off is the brass will give you many, many reloads.

Hornady One-Shot is your friend.

 

[Imissedagain]

Have not had any issues with Starline bought about a year or two ago. I use Redding steel dies.... or my Lee hand loader kit.
Make sure the mouth has no burrs.
Does it happen with both type expanders?
As was stated .....send some cases to RCBS.
There's a reason they call it a ...pluck test ...as opposed to a ...push in a bit test.
Nothing should be sub-par with hand loads.
You'll figure it out.
Let us know please.
I load Hornady 115gr FMJ and XTP.

 

[M3Stuart]

I do not have, and have never heard of, any problems with any Starline brass I've ever bought and used.

However, I do not load for the .380. But I don't think it's the brass.