redfisherdave
Member
This grip works for me.
Properly gripping a revolver with pictures
- Thread starter SkagSig40
- Start date
That grip will be brutal with .44 magnum loads, at least for me. I use it with left hand target shooting in PPC style with target loads, but use the thumbs over for right hand. I have small hands, and that grip is painful with magnum loads.This grip works for me.
As you may notice, I was addressing your assertion that attempting to replicate a thumbs-forward grip resulted in a compromised strong hand grip - which it does not.
I will also continue to disagree on taking KISS to the extent of making everything 100% the same between all different platforms. This results in compromised functionality or ability in one platform or another. I guess the real thing I don't understand is how anybody picks up a revolver and thinks it feels exactly as if they picked up an auto. The frame and stock types are completely different between the two platforms, resulting in completely different feels. I would have to consciously force myself to use any kind of thumbs-forward grip on a revolver because it is so completely unnatural to me - the frame style just doesn't allow it to work. Similarly, I find it unnatural to use a tucked-thumb grip on an auto, as the platform is naturally suited to a thumbs-forward grip - totally different feel there.
My hands naturally go to different grips on different types of weapons both from what subconsciously "feels right" as well as from built-up muscle memory.
Now, I do not use any of my techniques simply because somebody said I should. Will I try out different people's suggestions - especially from experienced and well-reknown shooters? You bet. I will try them out for myself and see what works best. And I - as well as a great multitude of others around the world - have found that a thumbs-forward grip works best for autos and a tucked-thumb grip works best for revolvers. (The basical physical implications behind the construction of these grips also gives them a great deal of credit beyond most "traditional" methods) Hence why I suggest these grips to other shooters. You don't have to use them, but to say that the weak hand in either grip negatively alters the strong-handed grip is utterly false.
Just wondering, have you tried thumbs-forward on an auto for at least one session? Quite frankly, I don't know of anyone who has seriously tried out thumbs-forward and then subsequently abandoned the technique. We've all found it to provide greater stability and increased recoil control over other alternatives.
I didn't say that revolvers and autos feel the same, I said I use the same grip with both types of weapon. I said that my hand molds to the grip, obviously I have to accommodate the gun, it will not change for me. Regardless, I hold them all the same way.
No offense, but, according to your profile, you're a 22 y/o software engineer involved in live gaming with guns. You've been taught, or learned to shoot, in a manner that best fits the game you're playing. Like I said earlier, what works on the playing field will not necessarily work in real life. I learned to shoot through military and law enforcement training. I carry and shoot lots of different guns, I don't focus on what is different about shooting them but what is similar.
I'm also a martial arts instructor and (former) kickboxer. I knew another instructor who would boast that his style had almost 400 techniques. I boasted that mine had maybe 25 and that once you learned those 25 everything else you could think of was just a variation on a theme. Again, it's the KISS principle at work. That's what makes a good boxer so dangerous. He's got just a handful of weapons in his arsenal but is so well versed and skilled in the use of those weapons for their intent - fighting - that few people can beat him in a street fight.
When things go bad you will default to your training. Suppose you lose the use of your support hand. Try shooting that auto one handed (right AND left) with your "thumbs-forward" grip and let me know how it works out for you. Maybe that will help you understand what I'm talking about.
I practice both strong and weak hand drills at *every* range outing. Again, using a high and forward thumb on autos produces the most stable platform, and the best results. Phsyically speaking, it will always produce a more torsionally rigid platform by speading the extent of your lateral contact over a longer vertical span. Also, on any auto with a frame-mounted safety, such a grip ensures that the safety is off when you are commencing firing.
While I do train for USPSA, I also train for self-defense, and take it very seriously - far moreso than gaming.
Also, I do get tired of people putting down the practical shooting sports because they are "gaming, not training". The basic skills you will either acquire or improve in the practical shooting sports are completely applicable to real-life usage. The thing is to realize what aspects are just part of the game, and which aren't. The actual core gun-handling skills are the same - it's still all about trigger control, sight alignment, and recoil management. Also, while not equivalent to the stress experienced in a real-life shootout, the added competitive aspect of the sports does add an extra element of stress that isn't there for static range shooting and basic training. Feeling the pressure of "the clock" helps you understand how things can go out the window when you thought you had it under control.
To reiterate - the practical shooting sports can help you greatly improve defensive firearms skills, as long as you know what to take from them, and what to leave on the course.
Again, have you experimented with the thumbs-forward technique on autos at the range? If you have, fine - if not, don't go knocking something like this until you've tried it for yourself.
these videos may help...............http://www.myoutdoortv.com/pdk/web/smith.html?feedPID=00zG15zm84msK0GbWemanhJ0KNWQYqM4
i use the second grip "j frame" when shooting my 686, 6 inch barrel. if i am practicing with my snub nose model 64, i'll only use one hand, weak or strong, and DAO. its the only way to prepare for self defense.
i use the second grip "j frame" when shooting my 686, 6 inch barrel. if i am practicing with my snub nose model 64, i'll only use one hand, weak or strong, and DAO. its the only way to prepare for self defense.
USAF385
US Veteran
I believe my grip is what some call "thumbs locked down". I use the same grip for semis and wheels. Would never put a finger closer to the cylinder than I needed to...
My combat arms instructor had us all hold our M9s how we felt comfortable, and only made adjustments to someones grip if it was potentially dangerous or hindering the mechanics of the gun. He didn't try to push what he felt was THE grip.
My combat arms instructor had us all hold our M9s how we felt comfortable, and only made adjustments to someones grip if it was potentially dangerous or hindering the mechanics of the gun. He didn't try to push what he felt was THE grip.
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Revolver King
Member
Nice link, I always enjoy watching Jerry shoot.
I find that I use a different grip when shooting autos (thumbs forward), double action (thumbs locked) and sometimes with single action (weak thumb high). The DA and SA really depend on how I'm shooting, and if I need to shoot for speed. I've had to tell my dad to watch his thumbs when he was shooting his Glock because he natually wants to shoot with weak thumb high (he's must have thought he was shooting his Blackhawk). He finally learned proper thumb placement with autos when the slide split the joint of his left thumb.
You will fight the way you train. That's a fact.
There was no "thumbs-forward" grip until somebody found they shot faster that way, IN COMPETITION. Not because it was a better combat grip or more effective in self-defense scenarios where the action is dynamic and ever changing. That's another fact.
Introduce someone trying to take your gun away into your game, so that you have to fight them off with your support hand while retaining your weapon and trying to get rounds off with the other and the "thumbs-forward" grip falls apart, literally. Don't underestimate the importance of weapon retention, it's not just about the kind of holster you use.
Yes, I've tried the "thumbs-forward" technique on autos on the range, along with just about every other technique and shooting style out there (that's what a few decades of experience gets you - lots of trigger time to draw conclusions from), and, like I said before, what's hot in competition or range play doesn't always work elsewhere. The "thumbs-forward" style offers me nothing more in the way of speed, accuracy, or security and having to practice two different styles of shooting because this gun is a revolver and that gun is an auto makes no sense. All that does is add one more thing that can go wrong when the SHTF and I'm down to gross motor skills and having to contend with a huge adrenalin dump, tunnel vision, auditory exclusion, and everything else that occurs in a gun fight, never mind the bullets coming my way.
"Thumbs-forward" is great for some people for competition and range use, but you need to think outside the range and the game. Like I said, you'll fight the way you train, that's why I train the way I want to fight. There's nothing wrong with playing the game but if you're going to play, do it in a way that will strengthen your off range skills (the ones that really count). If you shoot one way, in both competition and self-defense training, with both revolvers and autos, you will become faster and more accurate with ALL handguns than if you train yourself to switch back and forth between multiple styles/methods dependent on the weapon and venue. The person that practices one style will gain skill and proficiency faster, and retain those skills longer, than the person that puts the same amount of time into training in multiple styles. They will also learn to apply that skill to all scenarios, rather than choosing this method for one situation and that one for another, and so on. Once again, it comes down to the KISS principle. There's really no reason to make anything in life more complicated than it has to be, especially shooting and self-defense. If anything, we'd all be better off by striving to make things as simple and unencumbered as we can.
Here's a link to to a blog article that goes further into what I'm talking about.
http://sargesrollcall.blogspot.com/2008/04/sacred-cow-gored.html
Wickahoney
US Veteran
I'm that old, fat retired police instructor and I would never teach anybody to hold a revolver the way you do. First and foremost you are just waiting for a careless moment to get a finger far enough forward to get it close enough to the barrel/cylinder gap and get a serious owey!! That doesn't even account for the beating your thumb is taking.
If you think banging your right humb up isn't fun, try blasting that left index or left thumb open or off, predicated on caliber and gas escaping.
Try this: Grasp the revolver with your right hand. Curl your right thimb down till it touches the the first knuckle of your index finger. Your thumb is now out of the way and cannot remotely get whacked by the ejector thumb piece. The other thing you have now done is actually GRASP the revolver. You are a human, one of the things that makes you one is an oposable thumb. Use it to actually grasp the revolver. I've tried holding a Model 19 with Target grips and with finger grooved Combats just like you picture in number one. You are not grasp[ing the revolver at all with any force that could keep the gun from rotating back under recoil. It's no wonder your thumb takes a whacking.
So first just try grasping the gun with your right hand in the correct position. With your thumb curled down it should be resting at the first joint of your index finger and positioned with the tip just in line with the back of the trigger gaurd.
Now stick your left hand out with the palm up. Set the butt of the revolver in the palm of your left hand. Curl your left hand finger up and around your wrist. This will help support your right wrist under recoil. NOw put you left thumb UP to where it is comfortable. Mine ends up with the ball of the left thumb resting against the side of mt right thumb at the first joint. The thumbs are NOT crossed.
I called DP, another old, fat, retired, LEo instructor and revolver shooter. He sayd his left thumb ends up in the open space between the tips of his right fingers and the heel of his right hand where the right hand doesn't close entirely around the grip.
If you bring you right arm up and stick it straight out the sights on a S&W should be at eye level and lined up perfectly.
In a combat stance the left hand is supporting your right wrist and helping with instictive pointing/combat shooting.
You also have a firm grasp on the grip and your hand isn't getting whacked under recoil.
Give it a try with and empty revolver and you should find a firm position that is also comfortable. Acquire the sights and see what works.
Both you grtips seem way more adapted to a semi auto than a revolver.
the best
RWT
If you think banging your right humb up isn't fun, try blasting that left index or left thumb open or off, predicated on caliber and gas escaping.
Try this: Grasp the revolver with your right hand. Curl your right thimb down till it touches the the first knuckle of your index finger. Your thumb is now out of the way and cannot remotely get whacked by the ejector thumb piece. The other thing you have now done is actually GRASP the revolver. You are a human, one of the things that makes you one is an oposable thumb. Use it to actually grasp the revolver. I've tried holding a Model 19 with Target grips and with finger grooved Combats just like you picture in number one. You are not grasp[ing the revolver at all with any force that could keep the gun from rotating back under recoil. It's no wonder your thumb takes a whacking.
So first just try grasping the gun with your right hand in the correct position. With your thumb curled down it should be resting at the first joint of your index finger and positioned with the tip just in line with the back of the trigger gaurd.
Now stick your left hand out with the palm up. Set the butt of the revolver in the palm of your left hand. Curl your left hand finger up and around your wrist. This will help support your right wrist under recoil. NOw put you left thumb UP to where it is comfortable. Mine ends up with the ball of the left thumb resting against the side of mt right thumb at the first joint. The thumbs are NOT crossed.
I called DP, another old, fat, retired, LEo instructor and revolver shooter. He sayd his left thumb ends up in the open space between the tips of his right fingers and the heel of his right hand where the right hand doesn't close entirely around the grip.
If you bring you right arm up and stick it straight out the sights on a S&W should be at eye level and lined up perfectly.
In a combat stance the left hand is supporting your right wrist and helping with instictive pointing/combat shooting.
You also have a firm grasp on the grip and your hand isn't getting whacked under recoil.
Give it a try with and empty revolver and you should find a firm position that is also comfortable. Acquire the sights and see what works.
Both you grtips seem way more adapted to a semi auto than a revolver.
the best
RWT
Wickahoney,
Definitely +1! That's exactly how I was taught - and still do - grab onto a revolver.
Jerry
Definitely +1! That's exactly how I was taught - and still do - grab onto a revolver.
Jerry
tipoc
Member
If the thumb of the right hand is being cut by the cylinder latch a set of stocks that cant the thumb out a bit can help. Decent stocks can help many minor problems with grip and recoil control. On older guns with the service stocks I routinely felt some bashing of the stocks. The Magna style stocks removed that problem. There are many more options available.
tipoc
tipoc
