Pros & Cons Converting Private Range into LLC

[HorizontalMike]

I am openly considering whether/if I should create Limited Liability (LLC) for my private gun range.

BACKGROUND:

• Last year, my Property Owners Association (POA) tried to directly regulate my discharging of firearms at my own range in rural Texas.
  
• My County's Commissioners Court has zero/none restrictions concerning firearms.
  
• Texas Statutes passed a new law specifically naming POAs and prohibiting them from regulating any firearms, by any measure.
  
• Needless to say, this peeved my POA considerably, and NOW they are trying to "incorporate" the POA into a town/village/city in order to try and prohibit firearms under a municipal ordinance.
  
• Texas State Law prohibits/preempts municipalities from regulating "sport shooting gun ranges".
  
• I am wondering if creating my own range LLC would be desirable?
  
• I talked with the owner of an indoor gun range LLC and found out that the State of Texas has no regulating entity over sport shooting gun ranges... none.
  
• I also understand that a LLC would protect my home and personal accounts, thus limiting loss's to the LLC resources.

Does anyone on this forum have experience with LLC's for use little guys with a home gun range in Texas?

 

[Frank46]

Our club has been in existence for way over a half century. And lately have started doing or have done back ground checks on new members. You never know who or what is standing next to you. And of course there is always some fool who dosen't get the message about range safety rules and fires off a shot down range (true story) while guys are checking the targets.He lost his membership that day. And you always get the range ninja's who show up and proceed to do 30 round mag dumps and couldn't hit squat when doing so. Besides our regular RO's they hired one who actually lives on the property. We're up to about 850 members with many who have been members for 20 years or more. It's the newer ones you have to watch.And they pay hefty insurance premiums.Frank

 

[HorizontalMike]

Thanks for giving me the run down on your club. I occasionally use an outdoor range that is ~20mi away, when I need to shoot 200yd. And I have also seen/experienced much of what you have. That is why I have my own handgun range, just to limit/prevent my exposure to that unknown/inexperienced entity.

I do not want or desire to have multiple members, just to prevent the "incorporation of POA" folks from trying to regulate firearms via an ordinance.

BTW, I have a good working relationship with the local Sheriffs office and I regularly make a courtesy call anytime I activate my range. That allows them to discount/ignore peeved neighbors calling 911. As a result, my neighbors are now directly/personally complaining to the county judge. I attended a commissioners court workshop last month and personally discussed this matter with the judge and other commissioners. They all appreciate the 2nd Amendment and my courtesy calls to the sheriff's office. The sheriff was also in attendance and supportive.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I think you are a nice guy, and as such, you don't need the internet wisdom! You need good legal advice from someone that knows the laws and regulations of Texas. Spend some money and get an attorney, the Sherriff's and Commissioners' advise and support are worth exactly what you paid for them.

For one thing, there are tax issues with a LLC, you may want one of several types of trusts!

Ivan

 

[glenwolde]

For one thing, there are tax issues with a LLC, you may want one of several types of trusts!

Ivan

The IRS treats one-member LLC's as sole proprietorships so the LLC does not have to pay taxes or file a return.

But yeah, don't take my word for it. Seriously I'm pretty sure this will work but you need legal and tax advice from a competent professional.

The tricky part in my mind is having your residence and the LLC on the same piece of property. How do you have two seperate entities on the same property? The LLC leases the space from you? You from the LLC? Two different LLC's? The legal and personal tax ramifications of that?

A real lawyer could answer these questions.

 

[brucev]

By all means take the necessary legal steps to cut off any avenue the HOA or any other entity might use to shut down your legitimate, legal exercise of your 2nd Amendment rights. Act with immediacy and with a view to permanence. Use the very best legal advice available. As well, be sure to develop effective relationships with local elected officials, etc. Develop as large a positive footprint as possible. That will be most valuable to you should the time come when you must walk over troubled ground. Sincerely. bruce.

 

[HorizontalMike]

Looking for LLC Attorney

I put out some feelers for attorneys within an hours drive of my area. We'll see what pops up.

BTW, any incorporation vote/ballot would be on/with the 2020 elections next November. So I should be able to get this done several months in advance...

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

In Texas an LLC is a corporate taxpayer. You will not owe any tax as your receipts will be low, but if you forget to file a return stating that you do not owe any taxes, you will owe penalties and interest for not filing. The legal protection is a popular and partially outdated concept. If they want to get at you, there a dozen ways that a second year law student could do it. The Texas homestead laws will protect your house and property. LLC is subject to a lot more regulation and cost than just you shooting on your lot. I don't see what forming an LLC gets you.

 

[HorizontalMike]

In Texas an LLC is a corporate taxpayer. You will not owe any tax as your receipts will be low, but if you forget to file a return stating that you do not owe any taxes, you will owe penalties and interest for not filing. The legal protection is a popular and partially outdated concept. If they want to get at you, there a dozen ways that a second year law student could do it. The Texas homestead laws will protect your house and property. LLC is subject to a lot more regulation and cost than just you shooting on your lot. I don't see what forming an LLC gets you.

Hey thanks Rick! I would greatly appreciate any additional info you might share, if you would. If you prefer doing it through a PM, that would be fine. I want to be as informed as I can be before speaking with a personal attorney.

 

[mtgianni]

I was advised to let the Sheriff know that I had a private range so if this occurred, as a pre-existing range it could not be closed. A municipal might in some cases prevent future but could not restrict existing ranges.

 

[Kiwi cop]

How many are on your POA board and how many of them are gunning for you? (pun intended).

If it is just one or two stirring and the others following like sheep, why not stand for a position on the POA board yourself and fight them from within?

 

[Wise_A]

It's the newer ones you have to watch.And they pay hefty insurance premiums.Frank

At our 1350-member range, we have found that it is exactly the opposite. New members are exceptionally conscientious, while every single rule violation in the last decade has been the result of someone in the club for 10+ years.

As well, be sure to develop effective relationships with local elected officials, etc.

Heh, politicians are not smart, but even they should be able to figure out which is larger--the number of voting adults in Mike's house, or the number of people he's pissing off.

 

[HorizontalMike]

Tax Attorney Help?

FWIW, I would like to form a LLC private club of one member(s).

I just want the local POA & Incorporation Advocates to have zero opportunities to even think they could attempt to regulate my private range/club (according to Texas State Statutes regarding regulating sport shooting ranges). As best that I can tell thus far, there is not even a mechanism for municipalities nor counties for regulation of the above.

I would be very interested in hearing from Houston Rick, about the ways a 2nd year law student could come at my possible plan for a LLC. It appears that Rick, looking at his profile, is a tax attorney himself. I would love to here more about this...

 

[rkrcpa]

Seems like the biggest hurdle is the fact that you would probably need to transfer title to the LLC to gain much protection. That comes with its own set of problems.

If a municipality is "preempted" from regulating shooting ranges it doesn't seem that the POA would gain anything by becoming a municipality.

If the POA can't regulate firearms and a municipality can't regulate firearms, what can they really do to change your current situation? Is it necessary that you establish yourself as a "Shooting Range"? If so, what are the requirements to be a "Shooting Range"?

 

[Farmer17]

There's a lot to be said for supressors. I live in an area where I can legally discharge a firearm but my neighbors are pretty close and you will hear a shotgun blast or handgun once in a while shooting a coyote or armadillo but target shooting would definitely be annoying. The police aren't going to like it if they keep getting complaints for disturbing the peace and I would get tired of getting visited by them and our neighborhood is very peaceful and I wouldn't want to hear a lot gunfire from other people either. I can shoot away with my Silencerco Spectre II and no body even knows.