Prototype Pre War N Frame In .38 Super

[05CarbonDRZ]

I bought this S&W Calendar from 1995,It has pictures from the S&W Museum collection.I came across these pictures of a prototype N Frame chambered in .38 Super from 1930.I have never seen or heard of One so I just thought I would share it with the Forum.The Side Plate is inscribed with " .38 Auto Colt Sample" I bet it killed S&W to inscribe Colt on the Side Plate


image by alex1961m, on Flickr

image by alex1961m, on Flickr

image by alex1961m, on Flickr

 

[1blindref]

Now that would be a neat gun!

 

[AKtinman]

Interesting! The barrel appears to be similar to the "light lug" Heavy Duty.

This one ranks right up there with the alloy-frame 38/44 Outdoorsman that I would not be able to afford were it offered to me

 

[DWalt]

I don't know how many are aware of this, but depending upon the ammunition brand and the revolver, it is possible to fire .38 Super ammunition in a .357 revolver. Some combinations will allow chambering of .38 Super cartridges, some will not. This isn't hearsay - I have fired quite a bit of .38 Super ammo in both Colt and Ruger .357 revolvers. It actually seems like a mild load when fired. Same should hold true for use in a .38 Special revolver, but I wouldn't recommend it, as the peak chamber pressure may be a little high for a .38 Special revolver. The .38 Super case has enough of a rim to allow proper seating and extraction. Also, note that the .38 Super has a slightly undersize bullet diameter (0.355"), but it seems to shoot OK in a .357 bore.

 

[kwill1911]

Does anyone know the SN range and/or how many were made?

 

[jtcarm]

I dunno squat about them, but I thought the .38 ACP & .38 Super were two different rounds.

Rest assured had it ever gone to production, they would've been stamped .38 ACP or .38 Super. Or even tweaked the load and given it a new name.

IIRC, there was a special run of 627s chambered for .38 Super not real long ago.

 

[Hondo44]

I don't know how many are aware of this, but depending upon the ammunition brand and the revolver, it is possible to fire .38 Super ammunition in a .357 revolver. Some combinations will allow chambering of .38 Super cartridges, some will not. This isn't hearsay - I have fired quite a bit of .38 Super ammo in both Colt and Ruger .357 revolvers.

It must be a very small number of "combinations", none of my Super ammo will chamber in any of my Ruger , Colt SA or Smith 357s.

If one was in a pinch though, they could run them thru a 357 sizing die.

 

[amonofrio]

I owned a model 52 and a shooting buddy told me to try a few 38 supers in the gun. Fired great. Miss that gun. I think because the super is semi rimless it will work in the 357. I would not fire the super in non-+p .38 due to pressures exceeding recommended max. 38 super revolver would be really cool!

 

[DWalt]

My Ruger will accept any .38 Super round I have tried in it. My Colt 3-5-7 will accept only PMC and Aguila. Just a matter of having chambers on the top end of the tolerance range, and casings on the lower.

"I dunno squat about them, but I thought the .38 ACP & .38 Super were two different rounds."

Dimensionally they are the same. The .38 ACP was the original John Browning load for the earliest .38 autopistols. The .38 Super (or Super .38) is simply a later and hotter load. I think all of the .38 Supers now have +P headstamps to distinguish them from .38 ACP. I'm not sure if .38 ACP is even loaded at present.

 

[kwill1911]

The term "Super .38" refers to the pistol and when it was introduced it was intended to be shot with the standard .38 ACP ammo. The loadings got progressively hotter for 2-3 years until someone decided to rename it ".38 Super" to distinguish the hotter ammo from the earlier stuff.

 

[jtcarm]

My Ruger will accept any .38 Super round I have tried in it. My Colt 3-5-7 will accept only PMC and Aguila. Just a matter of having chambers on the top end of the tolerance range, and casings on the lower.

"I dunno squat about them, but I thought the .38 ACP & .38 Super were two different rounds."

Dimensionally they are the same. The .38 ACP was the original John Browning load for the earliest .38 autopistols. The .38 Super (or Super .38) is simply a later and hotter load. I think all of the .38 Supers now have +P headstamps to distinguish them from .38 ACP. I'm not sure if .38 ACP is even loaded at present.

Thanks for clarifying.

I'm glad they didn't pursue that route, or we might not have gotten the .357 magnum,

 

[DWalt]

There is excellent coverage of the background of both the pistol and the cartridge here: History Note that there are some mentions of a "Super .38" cartridge. I believe I once saw an older (pre-WWII) cartridge box that used the "Super .38" name - odd enough that I still remember it.

Some additional information from old ammunition catalogs:
Western listings:
1930 - .38 Automatic only (probably .38 ACP)
1936-42 - .38 Automatic Super-X only (probably .38 Super)
1946-52 - Both .38 Automatic and .38 Automatic Super-X

Remington listings:
1930 - .38 Automatic Colt Pistol only
1932 - .38 Super Automatic only
1938 - Both.38 Colt Automatic Pistol (1070 ft/sec MV) and .38 Super Automatic (1300 ft/sec MV)

Peters listings:
1932 - .38 Automatic Pistol only
1939 - Both .38 Super Automatic and .38 Automatic Pistol

 

[younggun22]

It must be a very small number of "combinations", none of my Super ammo will chamber in any of my Ruger , Colt SA or Smith 357s.

If one was in a pinch though, they could run them thru a 357 sizing die.

Ive shot them in a security six, mod. 13, and mod. 66

worked well, and they are semi rimmed so they extract, sort of... sometimes.