Public Enemies.. the movie farce

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Farmboy

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Being a historian by education and a lover of the era of the public enemies I looked forward to this movie so much. Bah, its worse than the old Dillinger movie starring Warren Oates. Barely any historical facts in evidence at all. Why or why do they need to do this when the true story is better than anyone can possibly write. Oh well there is always the new Bonnie and Clyde movie with Hillery Duff. Bet that one will be spot on!!

BR
 
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I just got home from watching it. I enjoyed it for what it was. I knew Hollywood would take liberties with history, they always do. I just watched it as a gangster movie with known gangsters.
 
How bad is it? Did they even have The Lady in Red? The last Bonnie and Clyde bothered me,with the way that they portrayed Frank Hamer.

That just wasn't right, even for Hollywood.

Hillary Duff is cute and sings well, but I can't see her in the same class with Faye Dunnaway, as a femme fatale

By the way, what was the name of the agent who caught Dillinger, Melvin Purvis? Going by memory. I read an article about that years ago

T-star
 
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That's hollywood for ya.

If you want history, read a book.... and even then you'll get some embellishment.

I never go to the theatre anymore. $18 for two? Bleh! I'll stop at Blockbuster and rent a dvd for $1 or $2.... the $16 extra I would have spent on the tickets can go toward some ammo!
 
I'll check it out tonight before heading to sleep. Should be done downloading in an hour or so. I usually like Depp's roles, and I didn't figure Hollyweird was going to produce a documentary anyway.
 
I would never expect any historical accuracy from a movie like this, but with Michael Mann directing it should be pretty good entertainment with decent gun play.
 
Steave said:
I would never expect any historical accuracy from a movie like this, but with Michael Mann directing it should be pretty good entertainment with decent gun play.
Click to expand...

Tommy guns and BAR's blasting away!

Hahaha, as I posted this the movie trailer was at the top of the screen.
 
The Thompson and BAR were favorites back then.

As for The Lady in Red, Anna Sage, if Michael Mann shows her in a white blouse and orange skirt, I think that's wunnerful.

I also wonder if it shows Baby Face using a Thompson in .38 Super, also a favorite of
the FBI for the Chicago Typewriter and their 1911s.

I understand the Little Bohemia clash is quite good in the movie, filmed on location at the Little Bohemia.

I noted in trailers for the film Depp jumping over high counters, something Johnny was known to do, thrilling his fans who saw him as a Robin Hood.

In an Ebert interview, Mann said his research consisted among other things working with the FBI, Byron Burroughs the author of Public Enemies and Chicago police. In the interview, he gives a lot of details behind the filming.
 
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If you are Depp fan you will enjoy this movie. I hang out at the Little Bohemia tavern in Manitowish Waters, Wisconsin where the movie and original shootout occurred.

We had a great party after the premier on Wednesday.

Movie has Baby Face Nelson been killed prior to Dillinger...wrong Baby was killed in October...Dillinger was July.

Interesting trivia...deaths of Pretty Boy Floyd, Dillinger, Baby Face and the Little Bohemia shootout all occurred on the 22nd of different months in 1934.
 
Yea, every time I see a six shooter fire 10 shots, or a AK fire 200 rounds without a reload, or tractor trailer is out of control down a mountain road I flip out and start my rant right there in the movie theater, or my living room and every time-- a voice---and a well placed pinch or poke says shut up and watch the damn movie you damn history buff. (I love you honey) The wife almost will not go to the movies with me anymore because I can find fault with even a straight forward documentary. Oh well It sucks reading about the events and some movie has to go and screw with what really took place.

Damn books, I don't know why I keep reading those correct/accurate things anyway. :rolleyes:
 
The trailer looks good.

Michael Mann's production of, "The Last of the Mohicans" was easily the best movie version of that book. Every time I see it, I think, dang, that is one movie that I wish that I had made! And I normally relate to writing books, not to movie making!

T-Star
 
I'm going to take my kid to it tonight - Tommy guns, BARs, old cars, and Fedoras are enough for me.

For historical accuracy, you can read the actual Dillinger file here:

http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/dillnger.htm

Go to part three - Melvin Purvis' affidavit of the shooting starts on page 11, the shooting itself is on page 14. Purvis only ID'd Dillinger, he never fired a shot and never claimed to. Dillinger was trying to get a .380 Colt out of his pocket and was shot down by three agents - H.E. Hollis, C .O. Hurt, and C. B. Winstead. Winstead fired three times, the others once. Winstead said later he was using a .45 1911A1 he checked out of the office armory.

The picture that spawned one of the first urban legends:

dillinger_morgue.jpg
 
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Purvis' son co-wrote an interesting book, "The Vendetta", that detailed Hoover's jealousy of Purvis' popularity. From several accounts, Hoover made it difficult for Purvis to stay and made life miserable for him when he resigned. Melvin did make Colonel in the Army during WWII despite Hoover's "help".

I got a kick out of the telegram Mrs. Purvis sent to Hoover upon Melvin's death (Hoover didn't even send condolences).
 
460v LAC du FLAMBEAU said:
If you are Depp fan you will enjoy this movie. I hang out at the Little Bohemia tavern in Manitowish Waters, Wisconsin where the movie and original shootout occurred.

We had a great party after the premier on Wednesday.

Movie has Baby Face Nelson been killed prior to Dillinger...wrong Baby was killed in October...Dillinger was July.

Interesting trivia...deaths of Pretty Boy Floyd, Dillinger, Baby Face and the Little Bohemia shootout all occurred on the 22nd of different months in 1934.
Click to expand...

Nelson was killed on November 27, 1934, Floyd on October 22nd, Dillinger on July 22nd.
 
public enemies

Here's my gripe. I have Burroughs book; it's very good. I can't imagine him standing still for the BS shown in the movie. I addition to the time line of the deaths of the major charactors, the circumstances are all wrong also. Nelson absolutely was not shot by Melvin Purvis. He died of wounds received while killing agents Sam Cowley and Herman Hollis. The movie shows Nelson and Van Meter and John Hamilton all being killed as a result of fleeing the fight at Little Bohemia. The Warren Oates movie did this also, but at least that movie had a little more authenticity in the actual gunfights. At least the Feds were protrayed somewhat correctly in that they had no regard for the law and were quite willing to kill first and ask questions later.

BR
 
The timeline of deaths is really meaningless, especially in a film with Dillinger as the principal. By leaving him to last (the film's star), it ties up the story. The end was the same, whether it was this month or that month. Enough to know that all three ended up dead at the hands of the agents.

Think of all the period correct street scenes, the trolley tracks running down the Chicago red-brick street center, and a thousand other things including the wide-hammered 1911A1s.

I doubt Burrough really cares or cared that Mann took license about the order of the rubouts. BUT! Why not write him, his publisher and you very well might receive a reply. It's worthy of a try.
 
I'm a history nut, and hate hollywood inaccuracies, especially when the general public takes whatever they see on the silver screen as cold hard facts.

That said, I'm still looking forward to seeing this movie. Johnny Depp, Michael Mann, and Dillinger are an ENTERTAINMENT trifecta for me!
 
Burrough's moved on to other things now and I imagine is content with selling the movie rights to his book. He did have a bit part in it, I think as a reporter running into the alley after Dillinger was shot.

I think myself they should have either called the movie Dillinger or else put more emphasis on the other Public Enemies, then they could have followed the correct timeline maybe. Or maybe not. Would be tough to cram all Burrough's book into a two-hour movie. Burrough originally planned Public Enemies not as a book but as an HBO miniseries. That might have been the way to go rather than as a movie but we probably wouldn't be talking about it now.

The best Dillinger book is Dillinger: The Untold Story by G. Russell Girardin and William J. Helmer and I think most of the Dillinger material in Burrough's book actually derives from it rather than from FBI files. On the other hand, Burrough covered all the other gangs as well and did a better job than anyone as far as communicating the fledgling FBI's baptism by fire.

I still haven't gotten around to seeing the movie but can't see Depp and Mann doing it better than the Warren Oates version. The '73 Dillinger was inaccurate too but still a fantastic movie.

Have heard that Tonya Holly, producer of the new Bonnie & Clyde movie with Hillary Duff, has lost some financial backing and that project may be shelved for now. No big deal to me. I would like to see a movie about Frank Hamer sometime tho. At one time there was supposedly one in the planning stages, with Robert Redford as Hamer and Tommy Lee Jones as Manny Gault.
 
Folks, if you're interested I am working on a website regarding the FBI Agents of the 30's which is located at: Home - Dusty Roads Of An FBI Era

My own observations about how inaccurate "Public Enemies" was and reader comments can be seen by linking the top "blog" link you'll see on page 1.

Stop by...enjoy it!
Larry Wack
Retired FBI
 
Farmboy said:
Being a historian by education and a lover of the era of the public enemies I looked forward to this movie so much. Bah, its worse than the old Dillinger movie starring Warren Oates. Barely any historical facts in evidence at all. Why or why do they need to do this when the true story is better than anyone can possibly write. Oh well there is always the new Bonnie and Clyde movie with Hillery Duff. Bet that one will be spot on!!

BR
Click to expand...

Hillary Duff in a new Bonnie and Clyde? You are joking, right? (please say yes)

Why, one might imagine "Have Gun, Will Travel" remade with Emniem (sic) as Paladin. (I feel ill, now) Richard Boone is spinning in his grave at 12,000 rpm!

BTW I'm of the opinion that the old Bonnie and Clyde movie with Faye Dunaway in it glorified a couple of no-account turds who should've gotten their just due long before Shereveport.
 
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