Question about 44Specal out of a 410.

[carpriver]

I have a question, I traded one rifle for a new to me rifle, I got a Springfield Armory M6 scout Air Force survival rifle 22lr /410 over under. The rifle was manufactured in the Chek Republic, it is stainless steel. The trigger is a grip trigger. Now the question, is it possible to shoot a 44 special cartridge in this barrel?

 

[MrJT]

While I'm not positive, I'd guess no. I know that .410 and .45 LC can be done (like the judge) or .410 / .45 LC / .45 acp like the governor.

I'm sure someone smarter will come along though with a more definite answer.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I would highly recommend against it. 44 Special is loaded to a much higher pressure. Also the bore diameter of 410 is what? A 44 Special is .429" The 45/410 weapons are a .451 rifled barrel, made for 45 Colt pressures. The best friend had a M-9 years ago when Springfield made the civilian version. The military version had a 14" barrel and that would make it a NFA weapon. You'll find the pattern will change somewhat with different shot sizes. Bigger shot (Smaller numbers) produces smaller patterns. Have fun with your new firearm. Ivan

 

[2152hq]

If it's a true 410 shotgun,,it is .410" bore dia.
If it's proofed for the 410 Shotshell (only,, and doesn't also show that it's been proofed for say the 45Colt or something else),,it's been proofed at about 15,000psi.
A small difference on wether it is a 2 1/2" chamber or a 3" chamber 410.
Most everything today in 410 is chambered in 3" but it's worth checking closely.

Stick to 410 shotshells or slugs loads unless clearly marked that other caliber ammunition can be safely used in the chamber.

Those combo-caliber guns out there use the larger size barrel diameter bores of the pistol rounds to allow the use of the smaller bore dia shotgun 410 round.
The 410 chamber size just happens to be be of an agreeable diameter to allow the use of the 45cal pistol rounds as their chamber also.

A number of very powerful and high pressure center fire rifle rounds will also (unfortunately) chamber and fire in many .410's,,but the results are not what you would want in most instances and most are not repeatable.

JMO of course,,

 

[tops]

I once had a .44 Spec. and my brother had a single barrel .410. We shot several .44s out of the .410. Didn't seem to hurt the gun. Larry

 

[Texas Star]

I have an old .410 single shot by either H&R or Iver Johnson. It 's marked as Diamond Arms Corp. I think that was a trade name used by Shapleigh Hardware Co. It was my late uncle's gun that I got when I was about six. It is marked for .410-.44 Cal. But I have no idea which .44 ammo it might accept safely. I thought maybe .44-40?

I've fired only commercial three-inch .410 shells. It has collected some doves, ducks, and rabbits.

Any GOOD idea which .44 Cal. ctg. it's proofed for? I don't have any .44 ammo to try in the chamber, and just because it fits may not make it safe to fire.

Oh: it's choked Full.

 

[sceva]

.410 Bore has a rim dia of .535, nominal base dia of .477 - Tube dia of .462
.410 Chamber specs are .477 at base tapering to .462 at the end by the forcing cone and a .410 bore dia.

.44 Special / .44 mag has a rim dia of .514, nominal case O.D. of .457 - Bullet dia of .429
.45 Colt has a rim dia of .512, nominal case OD of .480 - Bullet Dia of .451 - .454

.44 Spl case would be a sloppy fit in the chamber and the bullet would be .019 oversized.
.45 Colt case would likely fit and the bullet would be .041 + oversized

.45 / .410 guns are cut with the chambers sized for the .45 case dia while the bores are sized for .45 bullets and are over bored for a .410 but will work.

I would NOT shoot either .44's or .45's out of a gun bored correctly for a .410.

As an aside, I believe .410 shells have been used sucessfully out of .45-70 rifles ( BUT NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND)

 

[Alpo]

Texas, your "410/44" is chambered for the 44/40 shot load. It was referred to as the 44 Extra Long Shot.

 

[Alpo]

As for the original question, I also have an M6 and wrote Springfield, asking if shooting 45 Colt through it was safe.

They told me not to do it.

As others have said, those 45/410 pistols have a 45 caliber barrel. That 41 caliber shot-cup going down that oversized barrel don't hurt nothin'.

You send a 45 bullet down that 41 barrel though, and one of two things is gonna happen. Either the bullet will swage down as it goes, and by the time it gets out the end of the barrel it is an unrecognizable hunk of lead, or the oversize bullet will damage the barrel.

Just seems to be to be a bad plan. The "if it fits it'll work" plan ain't the greatest. Especially once you realize that both 30/40 Krag and 303 British will fit in a 410.

 

[Texas Star]

As for the original question, I also have an M6 and wrote Springfield, asking if shooting 45 Colt through it was safe.

They told me not to do it.

As others have said, those 45/410 pistols have a 45 caliber barrel. That 41 caliber shot-cup going down that oversized barrel don't hurt nothin'.

You send a 45 bullet down that 41 barrel though, and one of two things is gonna happen. Either the bullet will swage down as it goes, and by the time it gets out the end of the barrel it is an unrecognizable hunk of lead, or the oversize bullet will damage the barrel.

Just seems to be to be a bad plan. The "if it fits it'll work" plan ain't the greatest. Especially once you realize that both 30/40 Krag and 303 British will fit in a 410.

Thanks. It never crossed my mind to try a .303 in my old .410. But some .303 service rifles were made as .410 single shots, apparently for guard use or as foraging arms to kill birds and small game. I think they were used mainly in India.

 

[Alpo]

After reading an article about making brass shells for 410 - one of the parent cases for that project was 303 Brit - the next time I was down to my gun pusher's I took an ADC 45/410 derringer out of the case and stuck a couple of 303s in it. Just to see if they would fit a 410 chamber (that was the only 410 in the store.

It did look bad. 3-inch barrel with a 3.075" cartridge loaded in it. Just the TIP of those bullets sticking out of the muzzle.

I handed it to the other clerk. Said, "You wanna take this out on the range and give it a try?"

He declined. I wonder why?

 

[TheBreeze]

Saw this a while back....

http://youtu.be/wAnbDvLIAac

These guys try to destroy this 410 ( in a somewhat safe manner). I wouldn't do it, but I guess if it was a do or die situation - it's good to know it "might" work.

Again - I wouldn't do it just to see if it works.

 

[carpriver]

Thanks for all the information, When I was a kids maybe 10 and on my first deer hunt my grandpa gave me a single shot 410 and 2 44-40 rounds for the hunt. I never got to shoot it. And I never saw a deer. A disappointing first hunt.

So I will stick to 410 slugs and buckshot for this little gun. It shots the 22lr to point of aim. Thinking about using it for squirrel hurting.

 

[2152hq]

Thanks. It never crossed my mind to try a .303 in my old .410. But some .303 service rifles were made as .410 single shots, apparently for guard use or as foraging arms to kill birds and small game. I think they were used mainly in India.

The .410 'Musket' Single shot Enfields were chambered for the 303 Brit case blown out straight. In it's original chambering, they will not accept .410 Shot Shells as mfg in the US as the 410 Shotshell is larger in diameter.
Most of the surplus 410 bore Muskets imported in the past were re-chambered by the importers to a standard SAAMI 410 Shotshell chamber by quickly running a chambering reamer into the bbl. That made them more marketable, but destroyed their originality.

Brass 410 shotshell cases are sometimes made up using 444 Marlin brass. It makes a usable substitute.

303Brit cases blown out straight and used in a US 410 shotshell chamber are a sloppy undersize fit.
Usable yes in an emergency, but not something I'd do when other options are available. The short OAL of the 303 doesn't allow much payload anyway.

Most all the 410 Enfield Muskets were converted at Ishapor Arsenal.

 

[rburg]

In this age of ammo shortages, folks might try just about anything. If hard times hit, it might get really ugly.

So a story:

Back in about 1904, my grandfather bought a farm. Not really a hard scrabble farm, but not huge. The idea was to grow enough to eat and feed critters (also to eat.) And it became obvious to them they needed a gun to help kill the hapless critters other than chickens. Looking around, they couldn't find a Winchester 1 of 1000 or anything like that. But they discovered the generosity of the government would ship them (US Mail) a Springfield for about $1.50. They would also sell a box of military surplus ammo for $1.70. Anyone see an imbalance here? Anyway those big slugs were expensive back then, costing about 9 cents each. (anyone been seeing 22 rimfires going for 10 cents?) OK, the practical part was a beef was a big critter and so was a hog. So if you blew a whole dime on each one, it wasn't going to break the bank.

And missing wasn't a big issue since the range was a foot or two off the critters punkin haid. So the problem occurred when the desire for other things like wild bunny's or a hungry fox or hawk appeared. It was back then they discovered the Springfield would chamber and shoot the much cheaper and lighter recoiling .410 shot shells. Better still, the local hardware and feed stores stocked them. They also discovered the shot column was enough to also kill the critters at close range. For shotshell use, the 2 groove rifling didn't hurt the patterns too badly. A winner all the way around.

I know how unreliable family lore is. But the old Springfield was destined for me in the early 1950s. My brother had no interest in guns at all, and I spent my youth in the gun room with my dad. So when I inherited it I also received the sole remaining original cartridge. It looked for all the world to be a rimfire .45-70. It was internal primed. Unusual. So when I passed the gun along to my youngest, I made sure he got that cartridge. And I told him the story/history. Which he promptly lost. Both the story and the shell vanished. He never did listen well.

It never occurred to me to fire anything else in the rifle, and I never owned a .410 (nor wanted to.)

 

[DeadAye]

Thanks for all the information, When I was a kids maybe 10 and on my first deer hunt my grandpa gave me a single shot 410 and 2 44-40 rounds for the hunt. I never got to shoot it. And I never saw a deer. A disappointing first hunt.

So I will stick to 410 slugs and buckshot for this little gun. It shots the 22lr to point of aim. Thinking about using it for squirrel hurting.

Sounds like a great small game season gun to me. .22 squirrel gun and a 410 for those pesky doves and quail.... Also sounds like FUN

 

[Rule3]

Even if it did fit what about rifling? The 410 barrel is probably not rifled so how good would a bullet be traveling down a smooth bore?

As sceva stated, not a good idea

 

[Trooperdan]

I have an old .410 single shot by either H&R or Iver Johnson. It 's marked as Diamond Arms Corp. I think that was a trade name used by Shapleigh Hardware Co. It was my late uncle's gun that I got when I was about six. It is marked for .410-.44 Cal. But I have no idea which .44 ammo it might accept safely. I thought maybe .44-40?

Any GOOD idea which .44 Cal. ctg. it's proofed for? I don't have any .44 ammo to try in the chamber, and just because it fits may not make it safe to fire.

Oh: it's choked Full.

If it is old enough, it could have been intended to use .44 shot cartridges. I used to have a few in my collection, they had a paper extended enclosed wad that held a little bit of shot.

Edited to add:

Sorry Alpo, I didn't scroll down enough to see your much better answer about what I was trying to describe!

 

[Rule3]

The Savage Model 24 was a popular over, under shotgun/rifle it came in many configurations.
Probably the most popular was the 410 22 lr.
I have a 22 Mag, 20 gauge

There is a web site devoted to them.

 

[cussedemgun]

This link answers the question better than I can

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