Question about 617 after shooting it for the first time

[Person]

I shot my 617 no dash for the first time today. First off this thing is awesome. Now I know why so many people love these things.

When I was cleaning it I noticed some marks on the chambers. If you look at the pictures attached you can see little dings in the chamber openings on each chamber. The little ding is in the same spot on each one and it is at about 1:00 on each hole.

Is this normal? If not any ideas what might be causing this?

I did not see these marks before I shot it and from what I can tell this thing was probably not fired before I did today except for maybe test rounds at S&W.

Thanks,

Person

 

[murphydog]

Was it dry-fired at all?

 

[Chrysoberyl]

I don't see anything strange there...

 

[Snowbandit]

Looks to me like it might have been dry fired but I don't see enough damage to be concerned about. Just don't dry fire the rim fire guns. Yours looks fine........ enjoy it.

 

[Person]

The only dry firing that was done with it was when it still had an empty round in it. So when I lost count of how many rounds I had fired I accidentally dry fired but it did have an empty in it.

It is ok to dry fire with empties in right? If not I will be more carefull.

Thanks for the info!

Person

 

[Ed333]

The only dry firing that was done with it was when it still had an empty round in it. So when I lost count of how many rounds I had fired I accidentally dry fired but it did have an empty in it.

It is ok to dry fire with empties in right? If not I will be more carefull.

Thanks for the info!

Person

Once the casing is dented, the pin will keep hitting the same depressed spot (unless you manually rotate the empty), very little give left to it. I have not had good luck with .22 snapcaps holding up for very long, have had to conclude it is just better not to dryfire .22 rimfires.

 

[Cool Hand Hodge]

In my experience dry firing over a spent cartridge will not negatively impact the gun. This is with 20,000+ rounds through various rimfire pistols mainly a 617. I wouldn't worry about it. If your not the first owner, i would say the original owner dry fired...but if the gun still works...dont worry about it. YMMV

 

[Person]

Thanks for the info guys. I feel kind of bad if I caused this since the gun is in such great condition. Since I planned on it being a shooter I will try not to worry about it since it does not affect function. I will just be more careful in the future so the problem does not get worse.

Just our of curiosity what could go wrong if this got worse?

Thanks again for the info!

Person

 

[yanici]

Yeah, looks like dry fired marks. When I first handled my 617 at the gun shop I brought snap caps with me so that I could test it out. I remember asking the shop guy if he minded if I dry fired it as long I installed snap caps. He told me the snap caps were not needed and just go ahead. I put them in anyway. I wonder how many 22 rimfires that guy damaged?

 

[mtscout]

What gets worn or damaged when dry firing?
Is it the firing pin/striker? Or the cylinder wall?
I plan on getting a 617 shortly, and dry firing is something I've done as practice.
Thanks in advance.

 

[Kent J]

Dry firing a rimfire causes damage to the edge of the chamber. The firing pin being unrestricted by the ammo case is allowed to hit the edge of the chamber wall thereby disrupting the metal causing a indent in the face and subsequent bulge in the chamber. If this is done frequently enough it will eventually cause problems seating a round and ftfs. It is best to never dry fire them.

 

[s&wchad]

I don't believe those marks are from the firing pin. The firing pin strikes the cartridge rim at 12 O-clock, directly in line with the cylinder stop notch.

 

[5Wire]

The 617 chambers are recessed. The 1:00 dings aren't in the chamber itself. The firing pin may be slightly misaligned, its channel may be eccentric or too large.

There are no .22 revolver dry fire prohibitions in four different S&W Manual editions I have but the S&W FAQ Page cautions (bold italic emphasis added):

Can I dry fire my S&W handgun?

Q: Can I dry fire my Smith & Wesson?
A: Yes, except for the .22 caliber pistols which includes models 22A, 22S, 422, 2206, 2214, 2213 and 41.

.22 caliber revolvers such as models 17, 43, 63, 317 and 617 also should not be dry fired.

Q: Why can't I dry fire my .22 pistol or revolver?
A: Dry firing a S&W .22 pistol or revolver will cause damage to the firing pin.

I believe the chambers are not at risk. In fact, if the firing pin is aligned to avoid the rear rear face of the cylinder, I don't believe the firing pin would be at risk, either.

This was dry fired (not by me, though):

 

[scooter123]

I don't believe those marks are from the firing pin. The firing pin strikes the cartridge rim at 12 O-clock, directly in line with the cylinder stop notch.

I agree with this statement. I also have a 617 no dash that I have used fired cases in for dry fire practice and the strikes are at exactly at 12 o'clock. BTW, doing this and rotating the cases produces cases that nearly have to be hammered out of the cylinder. In the near future I'll make up a rubber block for the hammer to fall on in order to dry fire the 617 safely.

BTW, I also tried mine out for the first time today and I now understand why everyone raves about the 617. Mine came with a red dot scope and after getting it dialed in I was getting 1 inch groups at 60 feet from a bench rest. Then I shifted gears and started doing DA drills. For those who haven't tried a red dot, I highly recomend doing so. While pulling the trigger, the very long effective sight radius provides a microscope of what you're doing during the trigger stroke. I expect that with enough practice I'll start to make more improvements in my trigger stroke and cut down on the flyers. The only problem was that I only took 100 rounds of 22LR along.

The only real issue was that it was a bit of a shock when I transitioned to my 40 caliber P239, it took a full mag to get used to the increase in recoil and noise. However, I was shooting my major's better today than I have in months and I put that down to practice with the 617. Next time I hit the range I'll have to remember to take more 22 ammo along.

 

[Ed333]

What gets worn or damaged when dry firing?
Is it the firing pin/striker? Or the cylinder wall?
I plan on getting a 617 shortly, and dry firing is something I've done as practice.
Thanks in advance.

the pin strikes the edge of the chamber, with possiblility of chipping it.

 

[mtscout]

Thanks for the education.

Scooter,
What red dot were you using?
Would it work on a 4inch?

 

[s&wchad]

I don't believe those marks are from the firing pin. The firing pin strikes the cartridge rim at 12 O-clock, directly in line with the cylinder stop notch.

What I should have said is that those marks were not caused by the firing pin if the cylinder was properly lock up when the hammer was dropped. They could have been caused by the firing pin if the cylinder stop didn't engage the notch and the cylinder over rotated. It would be hard to make those marks on a properly timed gun (but you could if you worked at it).

It could have occurred during assembly when they were initially timing the gun. It's also possible that the gun had an issue related to the cylinder stop at some point in it's life and has since been fixed. The damage is negligible and it wouldn't bother me a bit, as long as the cylinder locks up properly now.

This K-22 shows a firing pin mark (circular impression) on the cylinder face at about 12 O-clock, between the two chambers. It also shows some minor marks on the edge of the counter-bores like yours.

 

[Person]

What I should have said is that those marks were not caused by the firing pin if the cylinder was properly lock up when the hammer was dropped. They could have been caused by the firing pin if the cylinder stop didn't engage the notch and the cylinder over rotated. It would be hard to make those marks on a properly timed gun (but you could if you worked at it).

It could have occurred during assembly when they were initially timing the gun. It's also possible that the gun had an issue related to the cylinder stop at some point in it's life and has since been fixed. The damage is negligible and it wouldn't bother me a bit, as long as the cylinder locks up properly now.

This K-22 shows a firing pin mark (circular impression) on the cylinder face at about 12 O-clock, between the two chambers. It also shows some minor marks on the edge of the counter-bores like yours.

Thanks for all the info. Other than doing the normal revolver checkups is there any other thing I should look at? As far as I can tell the cylinder is locking up correctly. I will have to recheck the timing when I get home from work tonight.

Thanks,

Person

 

[s&wchad]

Other than doing the normal revolver checkups is there any other thing I should look at?

If you had a mechanical problem, you would've noticed it at the range with FTF's and lead spitting. I doubt there's anything wrong with your gun.

 

[Person]

Everything was functioning fine and it actually shot great!

Looking at the pictures I took yesterday I did notice something else a little odd that probably is not related. If you look at the pictures below you will see some extra steel on the extractor star. I circled it in red in the first pic. To me it looks like they left some extra steel on there when making it. Is this anything to worry about?

Thanks,

Person

 

[s&wchad]

That looks like a cutting burr that would knock right off. Maybe you just need to stop looking at the thing under a microscope.

 

[Person]

That looks like a cutting burr that would knock right off. Maybe you just need to stop looking at the thing under a microscope.

You are right about looking at it under a microscope. Since it shot just fine I need to quit worrying........

Thanks again for all the info!

 

[scooter123]

Thanks for the education.

Scooter,
What red dot were you using?
Would it work on a 4inch?

Yes, it will work on a 4 inch gun. It may look a bit ungainly but I expect the 4 inch 617 is every bit as accurate as my 6 inch model.

I purchased my 617 used at a small shop about 1/2 mile from work. It came with a Laseraim Illusion, which is reported to be the first red dot on the market. It's an older unit and no longer made. It also came with a rail that clamps on the top strap and the 2 lower sideplate screws. So, I can't give you a lot of guidance because the setup probably dates to about 1992 when my 617 was made.

However, there is a wide selection of red dots now on the market at nearly every price point and the newer guns are drilled and tapped for a standard rail. I started out looking for a rail and reflex sight that I could mount on my 610. My final choice was a Burris Fastfire II on a Weigand rail. Total cost for that was just about 300 dollars and with that 617 sitting with a price tag of 495 I decided the 617 was a relative bargain. I talked the dealer down to 450 so in my rationalization I got a 300 dollar sight setup with a 150 dollar 617 in find condition. Links to Burris and Weigand follow.

Scopes - rifle scopes, handgun scopes, hunting scopes by Burris Optics

Scopes - rifle scopes, handgun scopes, hunting scopes by Burris Optics

This is a near equivalent to the Laseraim and cost is about 250. However, one local dealer stopped carrying Burris in the lat 90's due to poor customer support. They may have resolved that issue but you should probably so some checking around before dropping hard earned money on one. They also have the Fastfire II reflex which I have heard good things about from several sources and it's a bit cheaper than the scope type red dot and much more compact.

Smith Wesson scope mount KLN frame

This is one of many good rails that will fit the later S&W revolvers. All you have to do is remove the rear sight assembly to expose the tapped holes for a mounting rail. Weaver also offers a much smaller and less complex rail for about 9 bucks, however it's probably only suitable for the 617. One additional tip on mounting rails is to make sure they come with the required screws. As I understand it, the tappped holes are a #6-48 thread which is not a size you'll find in a common hardware store.

PS; after thinking about my session yesterday, I have come to the conclusion that the 617 is a shooters "crack" and probably addicting. There is something about being able to shoot very tiny groups with no percievable recoil and hardly any noise that is so relaxing that the only reason I stopped was because I ran out of ammo. In the future I'll probably have to limit how much 22 I take to the range so I am forced to practice with the majors.