question about K-boxes

[tjpopkin]

In a recent thread, I read that the Maroon Boxes were post war-1950, while the Gold Boxes were 1950-56…..

I have a Pre Model 10 M&P, shipped in 1947 in a matching Gold Box….



I have a K-38, shipped in 1948, also in a Gold Box…..


My K-22, shipped in 1948 has no box….which one do I want to find? Maroon or Gold?

 

[glowe]

My understanding is that maroon HE boxes ran concurrent with gold boxes starting around 1946. Gold boxes were phased out in the mid-1960s, while maroon boxes were made into the 1950s and maybe later.

Your Masterpiece is perfectly appropriate with a gold box.

 

[wheelgun610]

The maroon boxes shipped with post war guns were hold-overs from pre-WWII production. Various guns are known to have been shipped in them, as they certainly wouldn't have just tossed them in the trash. For the most part, gold boxes are considered "correct" for virtually any S&W up until about '56 when blue ones began showing up. Some slow movers were probably shipped in gold boxes even after blue ones became "standard" for the same reason as above....

Mark

 

[JP@AK]

The maroon and gold boxes did overlap, and previous posts have given good, rough estimates of when the overlap occurred. I have guns from the late 1940s that shipped in both styles.
Here's a maroon one from 1946:

My earliest gold box dates to 1948, but I think some of them showed up before that.

 

[RKmesa]

In a recent thread, I read that the Maroon Boxes were post war-1950, while the Gold Boxes were 1950-56…..
My K-22, shipped in 1948 has no box….which one do I want to find? Maroon or Gold?

Terry:

In all of my looking, I do not recall ever seeing a post war 2-piece K-22 Masterpiece Maroon/Burgundy box. I have seen plenty of pre-war K-22 Outdoorsman Burgundy/Maroon "Patent" hinged boxes like these.



I would expect that your K-22 came in the standard post-war K-22 Masterpiece Gold and Blue box...



Now... I have seen a multiple post-war Burgundy two-piece boxes for 38/44 Heavy Duties, 38/44 Outdoorsmans, 44 Specials, and 38 M&Ps.

BTW - I always enjoy your photo montages of your fine revolvers - thanks for sharing!

 

[DCWilson]

I don't remember seeing a gold box that was absolutely, positively shipped before early 1947. In my recollection, the postwar Masterpiece boxes are all gold, except that I may have seen one maroon K-38 box. I need to see if I can find where that memory comes from.

I have a July 1946 transitional HD and two July 1946 transitional ODs that came to me in gold boxes, but I knew the OD boxes could not have been original -- and I have come to believe the HD box is also later than the gun despite the number on it. Last year I was able to pick up the original maroon box for one of the ODs. I kind of think that all K- and N-frames shipped in 1946 went out in maroon boxes. Maybe in 1947 some N-frames began to be shipped in gold boxes, but I can't prove that from anything in my safe. I think K-frames in both the K and C series began shipping in gold boxes in 1947, as the only 1946 K-frame serial numbers I know are associated with the generic maroon boxes that have paper labels pasted on one end.

My Pre-26 from 1953 is in a maroon box, and I don't recall seeing a gold box that was made for this model. Whether they exist or not, this at least shows that some guns were still being shipped in maroon boxes after the short-action N-frames began appearing in 1950.

Here comes some heavy speculation, so break out the salt: I have long thought the gold boxes must have been more expensive to produce than the prewar boxes, what with the slightly heavier stock, metal reinforced corners, foil paper surface, embossing and colored opaque ink. The per-unit cost would drop with greater production quantities, but maybe limited sales potential reinforced the hesitancy to produce gold boxes for models that did not seem to have significant volume in their future.

All of which is a long lead-up to a straight answer to a simple question: Terry, your boxless K-22 should get a gold box to live in.

 

[beagleye]

David- If you don't mind sharing a little more, what is the serial range on your 1946 HD? I have one and would like to eventually set it up in an appropriate box, but I have been stumped on gold or maroon.

I have always found it interesting that many of the early gold boxes show transitional hammers.

 

[DCWilson]

David- If you don't mind sharing a little more, what is the serial range on your 1946 HD? I have one and would like to eventually set it up in an appropriate box, but I have been stumped on gold or maroon.

I have always found it interesting that many of the early gold boxes show transitional hammers.

My transitional HD is S66842; it shipped to Chicago on 7/18/46. If I'm right (or even mostly right) about 1946, almost every HD and OD with a serial number below S72000 would probably have shipped in a maroon box. Possibly several more transitional HDs with higher serial numbers would also have shipped in maroon boxes, but I just don't have the info to let me march farther down that road.

Regardless of when the gold boxes first appeared, they would have to have been designed earlier, perhaps at a time when available advertising artwork consisted almost exclusively of prewar designs. I have never really looked at later gold boxes to see when (or if) the short-action models began to be pictured instead of the ones with older hammer profiles.

 

[wheelgun610]

.... I have always found it interesting that many of the early gold boxes show transitional hammers.

The first one that comes to mind for me would be the boxes for the Model of 1926 .44 Military. Then, later, those boxes were over-labeled with "Model of 1950" labels. Here's an example:

Mark

 

[dant]

Nice, guns, and yes, should be the gold blued lettered box, as the pictures show and imply and as we have seen over the years, seem like the larger frame guns ran (shipped) longer in the maroon, as well as red boxes...again NICE guns and great pictures as usual, you and Doc take the best pictures


and I may add we've had and seen maroon boxes be used for shipping returns (repairs) and you will see a date stamped on the inside of the top lid.........

 

[JSR III]

Around 1935, there is a blue two piece box with a raised image of the gun. Prior to WW2 you have a red two piece box and these were used after the war as well.

After the war, late 40's and 50's K and N frames were shipped in two piece gold picture boxes.

These were followed by two piece blue boxes that had either a solid or dashed border and included the famous sun burst box.

From 1964ish to 1984ish the boxes will have the words Bangor Punta followed by boxes with Lear Siegler around 1984. Somewhere during the mid 80's a one piece box was used and I don't recall if this happened during the end of the BP years or only at the beginning of the LS years. The only one piece boxes that I have are all Lear Siegler boxes. The one piece box will have the black plastic insert that the trigger guard wraps around.

All in all, I would say that the most correct box for a K22 Masterpiece would be the gold box. I don't think that I have ever seen an early K22 in a red or burgundy/maroon box but remember, as far as S&W was concerned, it was just a piece of inventory and needed a box to ship out in. If they had a left over red box and a gun had to go out, they would not have had a problem shipping it in a box that we think is out of sequence. Not saying it happened but it could.

 

[JeffNW]

Threads like these are what makes this forum
so interesting and valuable!