Question about letter received from Roy.

MARKO77

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Last summer i purchased a Pre-model 27 ser# S1522XX I called S&W and was told a mfg date of 1954. The letter i received from Roy states the S-prefix pre-model 27 was shipped Feb 19 1959 to H.H. Harris Co. So everything checks out being a pre-27 barrel length of barrel,finish and grips. My question is i thought Pre-model 27's came before 1959 , it says shipped in 1959 but maybe manufactured earlier?

Marko
 
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Ship dates and manufacture dates can vary widely, especially on pre-war guns. If there isn't a mixup with the dates here somewhere that's a pretty interesting gap though, given that it's a post-war gun and so much time elapsed.
 
or, it could be a typo and actually shipped in 1955 or 56. However, some serial numbers were shipped much later than would be expected, so the date may be correct.

Bill
 
1959357.jpg


S&W guns do not ship in strict numerical order. You will often find they didn't ship when they were "supposed" to. I have a "Pre Model 27" in the same situation as yours. It has the serial number (S1515XX) and might have been part of the same shipment as your revolver. Being a 5-screw gun and with that serial number you would think it shipped in 1955-56, but mine also shipped in Feb. 1959. No big deal, our 357 Magnums probably got lost in the back of the safe for a while. Just more evidence that you "never say never" when collecting Smith & Wessons.
 
Pre-27 ship date

I am in the same circumstance as you and JSW. My pre-27 is S150260. When I bought it, I thought I'd be getting a "birthday" gun for me with a 1956 ship date. Imagine my surprise to get a letter showing a ship date of 4/59, well into the model marked years. Oh well, you just never know with S&W!
 
I show quite a few around that SN as shipping throughout 1956. Even given the non-linearity of SN to shipping date, I think it is a stretch that yours shipped at least two years after it could have.
 
You must realize that S&W built guns in "runs". Your gun could be part of a 1,000 gun run. Lets just assume that they were manufactured and assembled in serial number sequence.

Today, guns S 150,000 through S 150,250 were assembled, boxed and placed in the vault. (And I am only guessing on how many were completed in one day)

The vault is a large caged area in the factory with metal shelving racks. The stockboy takes the cart into the vault and places these newly assembled guns on the open shelf where this model is to be stored. He piles the boxes on the back of the shelf and continues stacking them while he works toward the top and front of the shelf.

Tomorrow, the same thing happens, with guns bearing higher serial numbers and the boxes are placed in front of the guns stacked yesterday. This procedure continues until the complete run is stored.

A week, a month, or several months later, a shipping clerk enters the vault to pick a gun, 5 guns or 100 guns to fill an order. He grabs the guns in front and ships them out.

S&W records the serial numbers for inventory control but cares not that the guns shipping out today have serial numbers higher than those on the back of the shelf.

The last gun on the shelf just happens to be the first one assembled by serial number but turns out to get a shipping date 3 years later as it took three years to empty the shelf.

If other runs were made in the meantime as the stock on the shelf was running down, subsequently those guns could end up on the shelf in front of ones made 5 years earlier and so on and so on.

I am not saying that this is a definite process for all guns shipped by S&W but offer it as a possible explanation as to why mfg. dates and shipping dates and pre models and model numbered guns are shipped all over the place.

S&W was in the business to make and sell guns to make money. The only folks that get anal about serial numbers and dates are we collector/accumulators. :eek:
 
You must realize that S&W built guns in "runs". Your gun could be part of a 1,000 gun run. Lets just assume that they were manufactured and assembled in serial number sequence.

Today, guns S 150,000 through S 150,250 were assembled, boxed and placed in the vault. (And I am only guessing on how many were completed in one day)

The vault is a large caged area in the factory with metal shelving racks. The stockboy takes the cart into the vault and places these newly assembled guns on the open shelf where this model is to be stored. He piles the boxes on the back of the shelf and continues stacking them while he works toward the top and front of the shelf.

Tomorrow, the same thing happens, with guns bearing higher serial numbers and the boxes are placed in front of the guns stacked yesterday. This procedure continues until the complete run is stored.

A week, a month, or several months later, a shipping clerk enters the vault to pick a gun, 5 guns or 100 guns to fill an order. He grabs the guns in front and ships them out.

S&W records the serial numbers for inventory control but cares not that the guns shipping out today have serial numbers higher than those on the back of the shelf.

The last gun on the shelf just happens to be the first one assembled by serial number but turns out to get a shipping date 3 years later as it took three years to empty the shelf.

If other runs were made in the meantime as the stock on the shelf was running down, subsequently those guns could end up on the shelf in front of ones made 5 years earlier and so on and so on.

I am not saying that this is a definite process for all guns shipped by S&W but offer it as a possible explanation as to why mfg. dates and shipping dates and pre models and model numbered guns are shipped all over the place.

S&W was in the business to make and sell guns to make money. The only folks that get anal about serial numbers and dates are we collector/accumulators. :eek:

James,
You tell good stories,I like stories, . Where do babies come from?
 
James,
You tell good stories,I like stories, . Where do babies come from?

When you say babies in the context of S&W, I have to assume that you are referring to "Baby Chiefs". In that case, Baby Chiefs come from the first J frame revolvers built with the grip frame and trigger guard size of its predecessor the I frame.

Later, these two features were enlarged and we purists refer to them as the "teenager chiefs". :D
 
Just how fast the inventory turnover rate was would determine the duration of a specific gun's residence in inventory. During WWII, it was probably the rare Victory that remained in finished products inventory more than a month or so, as they were leaving the shipping dock about as fast as they were being manufactured, and little accumulated in inventory (at least during the height of wartime production). During the Depression, when sales were very, very slow, residence times in inventory could easily have been years, as few were manufactured and even fewer were sold. There is an old and basic engineering principle: Input = Output plus Accumulation (inventory accumulation). The closer Input (production) is to Output (sales), the less the Accumulation. And that applies to everything, even money. The more you make (input) and the less you spend (output), the more your bank account (inventory) increases. If your output is more than your input, your inventory decreases. In the real world of business, inventory management efficiency is extremely important to survival, as every item in inventory represents a very tangible use of valuable resources and capital. No business can afford to allow inventory to increase much beyond minimum acceptable levels necessarily to meet shipping schedules, as excessive inventory is really an idle and costly investment. So any business must adjust product sales or production levels, or both, to keep inventory levels under tight control while providing a cushion to meet unexpected sales surges or production interruptions. Think .22 ammunition availability problems over the last few years. Many businesses fail by violating this iron economic law. One of the key business indicators used by security analysts is the effectiveness of a company's inventory level management.

In my admittedly limited SN data base, I show no S-series N-frames shipping in 1959 or 1960 having SNs very close to the OPs SN (but some in the upper 150,000 SN range did show as shipping in those years). But that in no way means it didn't or couldn't happen for a small number of isolated guns tucked away in dark corners. The fact that such events can occur is evidence of poor inventory management.
 
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The most extreme difference on a ship date Roy ever commented on was a Mod 39 shipped 13 years after it was mfg. To say their inventory control in the vault was lacking is an understatement. I believe they cleaned out the vault sometime in the 80's and instituted a better inventory control and shipping policy/procedure. Some stocking dealers had similar problems. Our former LGS which unfortunately closed about 7 or 8 years ago, but which had been in business for over 100 years had a few. One that I saw was an Anschutz 54 Sporter in .222 was found by the gun dept. mgr when doing some rearranging. It had an inventory price of $85 on it so he bought it for himself! today that's about a $1500+ rifle.
 
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It's not the management by the people in the vault that matters nearly as much as management at the highest levels. All they can do is shuffle boxes according to what their bosses tell them to do (or not to do). The vault crew cannot do anything to change production levels or increase sales. Only the top guys can do that.
 
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Another reason the Victory model didn't hang around was they were sold as soon as they were done. A Model what ever may stay in inventory for months or even years before it was sold. If Smith & Wesson had an order for 100 guns, they would make over, in case of a gun getting scrapped. So the overs would sit until a single gun or two was ordered. They would check inventory and pull the order from stock.
 
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