Question about Trail Boss data

[Mikeinkaty]

The Hodgdon web site has a hand load calculator. It says that 5.3 grains of Trail boss in a 357 mag cartridge will push a 125 grain lead cast bullet at 1035 fps. Yet, the same load and bullet in a 38 special cartridge will only achieve 952 fps. If this is correct, can anyone explain why? With the smaller cartridge space it seem like those numbers should be reversed.

Thanks
Mike

 

[Clovishound]

Different test barrel length.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

The load, 5.3grs/T-B, in the 38 Spcl is shot in a 7.7" bbl. & the pressure is in PSI (13.4K) while the 357 Mag load is shot in a 10" bbl. & is measured in CUP (17.9K). PSI & CUP are not relatable.

A 38 Spcl. case has 9.3% less capacity than a 357's.

No sure why anybody would prefer to load reduced loads with Trail Boss in these relatively small cases. Trail Boss costs more & you get less too.

.

 

[Wise_A]

People obsess over charge volume vs case volume, the ease of visually checking powder charges, and precluding overcharges with fluffy powders.

Personally, it's WST and BE for me.

 

[Cdog]

Barrel length, magnum primer, etc.

Safety is a healthy obsession.

 

[Mikeinkaty]

I chose TB because I'm a beginner and it is fairly fast burning and bulky. My S&W has a 3" barrel. Also because I want to train my grandkids with light loads. I will load up 1000 rounds. Once I get to the range I will decide if I want a heavier load. I think 5.5 gr of TB is the most that will fit in a 357 case and that should produce about 1100 fps with the 125 grain bullet. I have about 400 rounds of Perfecta 158 gr of FMJ. Once those are gone I'll load some hotter rounds. When I go to a heavier bullet I will need a different powder. Something fast and clean and not as bulky as TB. Any suggestions welcome as loading is a new experience for me.

 

[joe44va]

Not really on the subject, but I find Trail Boss is more consistent with magnum primers and at 90 fill.

 

[JBnTx]

The Hodgdon web site has a hand load calculator.

Where did you find this hand load calculator?

 

[ruggyh]

No sure why anybody would prefer to load reduced loads with Trail Boss in these relatively small cases. Trail Boss costs more & you get less too.

.

Because there is no chance of blowing the gun up with a mistake on the reloaders part

cheaper is not equal to better

good luck and be safe
Ruggy

 

[Cdog]

I chose TB because I'm a beginner and it is fairly fast burning and bulky. My S&W has a 3" barrel. Also because I want to train my grandkids with light loads. I will load up 1000 rounds. Once I get to the range I will decide if I want a heavier load. I think 5.5 gr of TB is the most that will fit in a 357 case and that should produce about 1100 fps with the 125 grain bullet. I have about 400 rounds of Perfecta 158 gr of FMJ. Once those are gone I'll load some hotter rounds. When I go to a heavier bullet I will need a different powder. Something fast and clean and not as bulky as TB. Any suggestions welcome as loading is a new experience for me.

For handgun I like powders of medium to slow burn rates. I'm not concerned with number of rounds per pound, and yes I prefer higher load densities that will not easily allow a double charge. For many years Universal has been my "go to" powder for non magnum velocities.

If I'm loading for top performance in a magnum W296/H110 is my first choice.

 

[Wise_A]

See! I found them!

When I go to a heavier bullet I will need a different powder. Something fast and clean and not as bulky as TB. Any suggestions welcome as loading is a new experience for me.

WST, HP-38/WW-231, and Bullseye are all excellent choices for low-recoil target .38s. Starting loads of all three powders are quite comfortable. They're also fine-grained and smooth enough to meter easily at such light charge weights.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

Because there is no chance of blowing the gun up with a mistake on the reloaders part

cheaper is not equal to better

good luck and be safe
Ruggy

Well, overfilled & crushed granules is a no-no with Trail Boss. That would be a mistake on the reloader's part.

LOL, more expensive doesn't guarantee anything. Cheaper is better for most of us.

.

I will load up 1000 rounds. Once I get to the range I will decide if I want a heavier load.
I think 5.5 gr of TB is the most that will fit in a 357 case and that should produce about 1100 fps with the 125 grain bullet...
Any suggestions welcome as loading is a new experience for me.

The warning from Hodgdon on Trail Boss says:

Trail Boss® was designed to work in specific charge weight ranges. Do not use charges less than the starting load shown, nor greater than the maximum shown.

They list 5.3grs as the maximum charge in a 38 Spcl. case with 125gr cast lead bullet.

Also, just curious, why would you load up 1000 rounds before you fired them to see if you wanted/needed something different?

You usually (with regular powders) work up a load from starting, in powder weight increments of a few rounds each, & see how they shoot in your gun before you load up a large quantity, to avoid having undesirable/uncompatible loads.

.

 

[ruggyh]

Well, overfilled & crushed granules is a no-no with Trail Boss. That would be a mistake on the reloader's part.

LOL, more expensive doesn't guarantee anything. Cheaper is better for most of us.

Yes crushed powder in this case could result in higher pressure for sure but the chance of crushing this powder compared to an overcharge of is comparably small- I have yet to see it.

With Trail Boss 100% case fill in any cartridge will not result in a over pressure condition.

I see and handle 3 to 4 X-frames every year that owners have blown up as result of using fast powders trying to make reduced loads.

I have yet to handle any revolver in which Trail Boss resulted in a damaged gun.

They made Trail Boss and Tin Powders for a good reason - reduced loads.
Saving 2 cents a round just does not make a good justification.

Cheaper is just that, cheaper not better.

If you are are high volume shooter and 2 cents is a deal breaker I would suggest choosing a smaller cartridge to shoot.

As always it is the shooters choice.

Good luck and be safe
Ruggy

 

[Mikeinkaty]

I put up a separate post about my shooting results. Yes, I like the 3.5 grain load using TB in both 357 and 38 Spl cases with 125 grain bullets. After 200 rounds my pistol was still pretty dang clean.

 

[Rule3]

Where did you find this hand load calculator?

There is no "calculator" per say(that I know of) but TB can be used to loadd anything using these instructions.

Also NEVER have a load that is COMPRESSED.

http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

If the OP wants' to use TB then whats the issue over any other powder?? Yes, it is not a full pound but so what?

It is good for what it is.

 

[Rule3]

People obsess over charge volume vs case volume, the ease of visually checking powder charges, and precluding overcharges with fluffy powders.

Personally, it's WST and BE for me.

That's you choice and not that of others.

Actually "in most situations" a powder (whatever make) that fills a case up more than another is usually a better choice of powders.

Lyman 49, page #63

 

[Wise_A]

Shh! Don't tell all those guys winning matches with 2.7 of BE in .38 Spl! Or the fans of BE, WST, HP-38/WW-231, and Titegroup in Bullseye matches--those are shot at 25 and 50 yards, btw.

Or how about .32 S&W Long, used for NRA centerfire? You betcha--those guys are using fast powders: N310, Titegroup, and Bullseye, all in minuscule charges between 1 and 2 grains. And you can bet that if filling the case made a difference, those guys would bust out the dippers and trickle chargers to use Clays or TB.

There's a big difference between loading for a rifle cartridge with rifle powder, and a handgun cartridge with handgun powder. Pressure differences caused by powder position are accentuated by the significantly slower burning rate of rifle powder, not to mention the volume and size of rifle cartridges.

Are there handgun cartridges which benefit from the use of a deliberately "fluffy" powder? Sure. .45 Colt comes to mind, as do most cartridges originally developed for black powder. Particularly when loading for cowboy action shooting.

.38 Spl is not one of those cartridges.

If you insist on loading light in that cartridge, and want to use TB or Tin Star, fine--more of the good stuff for the rest of us.

If you want to erroneously suggest that case fill in handgun cartridges is necessary to achieving accuracy or consistent function, i will disagree.

 

[ruggyh]

If you want to erroneously suggest that case fill in handgun cartridges is necessary to achieving accuracy or consistent function, i will disagree.

Never said or suggested case fill in handgun cartridges is necessary to achieving accuracy or consistent function, example to the contrary can be readily found.

Case fill is just one element a ballistian looks at to determine the suitability of a powder for a given set of conditions and should not be discounted as not important even in handgun cartridges.

That said TB has produced consistent/accurate results in every case I have used it.

and yes many powders can be used to produce good result in 38 no has said other wise.

What I am talking about is reduced loads- and I don't see those being shoot at any matches.

Many roads will get you to the same place, some just have a few more potholes.

Good luck and be safe
Ruggy

 

[BLUEDOT37]

Trail Boss costs more & you get less too.

It's funny how a simple benign statement sets some people off.

.

 

[Wise_A]

Actually, all of the loads I mentioned are characterized as starting or reduced. And as I also mentioned--they're all match loads, meant to hold the X-ring (1.5") at 25 yards. 2.7 gr of BE under a 148-gr HBWC was regarded as the PPC load for decades.

So you concede that they're accurate, and that they function consistently, and that they produce "good results". They're low recoil. How are they unsuitable? What are the "potholes"?