Question for Booze Collectors

[500SNW]

My Dad asked me about how to sell a bottle of collectible bourbon he's had for over 20 years. He heard they were worth "good money" on the collector market and wants to sell his. I suggested selling it online...but then I got to thinking about the legality. I'd hate to list it somewhere and find out I shipped it to a 16 year old kid or something. Has anybody ever done this...or more appropriately...can it be done without running afoul of the law? Thanks for any advice you can give.

 

[Absalom]

Generally, no. It’s illegal, no matter who you ship it to. Shipping without a license is a separate crime, btw.

But since you are in Ohio, if your dad can make it to Kentucky somehow, there is a legal way now, as they just changed the law for collectibles. Read these two columns from Chuck Cowdery’s blog, the guy who knows everything about American whiskey. And tread carefully

The Chuck Cowdery Blog: Buyer Beware

The Chuck Cowdery Blog: The Bourbon Secondary Market Is Now Legal in Kentucky, Sort of

 

[Jebus35745]

Son lives in Dayton and collects bourbon, send your Dad’s contact info by PM and I’ll give it to him. He will be fair with him on price and how he can ship it. Can’t believe the collection he has. Larry

 

[Absalom]

To quote Chuck’s most pertinent observation;

“The mental gymnastics secondary market participants use to rationalize their illegal behavior can be stunning. The only sound argument is that prosecutions are rare, so you probably won't get caught. But don’t kid yourself. You are breaking the law and the risk of life-changing consequences will always be there.”

 

[hardcase60]

In the for what it's worth department, it's my understanding that, for online sales, the seller is hawking the "collectable" bottle and not the contents. I'm no expert but I have stayed in a Holiday Inn Express. hardcase60

 

[500SNW]

Thanks to all who replied. Jebus check your PM.

 

[Absalom]

In the for what it's worth department, it's my understanding that, for online sales, the seller is hawking the "collectable" bottle and not the contents.....

I think this would be an example of what Chuck means when he talks about “stunning mental gymnastics” to justify illegal behavior

This may make perfect sense when these folks talk among themselves, but tends to elicit nothing but snorts of derisive laughter when tested against law enforcement and the courts in the real world.

But then, often these people aren’t the brightest bulbs in the chandelier. The last case I remember making the local paper here in Oregon involved a guy who advertised a bottle of Pappy Van Winkle on Craigslist, and was surprised when the putative buyer showing up at his place turned out to be two agents from the OLCC (liquor commission). Unless I’m mixing up something, I think the bottle turned out to be a fake, too.

 

[500SNW]

Thanks everybody

 

[500SNW]

Oh yeah...and to one of the guys that PM'ed me...I tried to reply but is says you've exceeded your stored message limit. I can't PM you until you make some space. Thanks.

 

[Ole Joe Clark]

I have some Jim Beam that I received from a subcontractor back in 1981. My jaw fell open and I didn't even tell him I didn't drink. Made my boss mad because he didn't get one. The seal has not been broken, I'm not sure why I keep it.

Have a blessed day,

Leon

 

[chief38]

The heck with the Booze - I was admiring the Tool Box!!

 

[Ole Joe Clark]

I've had the tool box since 1965, bought it new.

 

[Absalom]

I have some Jim Beam that I received from a subcontractor back in 1981. My jaw fell open and I didn't even tell him I didn't drink. Made my boss mad because he didn't get one. The seal has not been broken, I'm not sure why I keep it.
....

I’ve seen this design before, empty though, in a bottle collection. I think they released these only that one year. There were three different animal pictures, an elk, a duck, and that owl. They’re kinda hard to forget if you’re used to regular Jim Beam bottles

 

[rburg]

I think the bottle turned out to be a fake, too.

How do you fake a bottle? Either it holds water or it doesn't. And it helps to know what it should look like.

 

[DWalt]

"How do you fake a bottle? "

Anything can be faked if there is enough profit to be made.

Anyone ever see that documentary about the guy who was counterfeiting rare wines and selling them to wealthy wine collectors? One of the Koch brothers was a victim. He was counterfeiting bottles and labels, aging them, and filling them with cheap wine in the expectation that they would never be opened. He had a counterfeiting factory in his house. He was sort of in league with one of the large auction houses which moves a lot of collector-grade wines, and that alone gave the bogus wine an air of authenticity. Strange that those so-called sophisticated wine collectors took so long to figure out they had been swindled. The guy was making millions from his scheme.

 

[Absalom]

Especially since the common availability of high-quality scanners and color printers, reproducing genuine-looking labels of collectable bottles that sell for pretty insane amounts on the legal international auction market, but also on the illegal domestic secondary market, has become quite widespread.

The Catch-22 is that you can’t sample the content since by definition the big bucks are paid for unopened bottles. So as long as you hit the right color note, you can use tea or whatnot as long as bottle and label fool the customer.

And precisely because the whole “business” is illegal, and the buyers generally well-heeled and have a reputation to lose, they’re unlikely to run to the police if they later discover the scam. So it’s a pretty safe crime especially in the US.

Internationally, the big spirits auction houses actually have specialized investigators trained in hunting these forgers. Whisky Advocate magazine last year had a whole issue dedicated to the problem.

 

[CBus660R]

In the for what it's worth department, it's my understanding that, for online sales, the seller is hawking the "collectable" bottle and not the contents. I'm no expert but I have stayed in a Holiday Inn Express. hardcase60

That's similar to the thought process of the keg parties my friends and I hosted. $5 for the red Solo cup, all the free keg beer you could drink lol LEOs didn't care for it, but since we were all 21 and over, no tickets were given (thankfully the under 21 crowd knew the back way out and ran when they saw the flashing lights pull up out front)

 

[charlie sherrill]

About 10 years ago Burg gave me a bottle of IH Hirsch. I didn't know what it was and maybe he didn't either. A couple of years later my Mom died and my favorite cousin came in from Houston and stayed with me until the funeral. I broke out the Hirsch and we polished it off. It was very good stuff. I didn't think anything about it until a couple of years later I went to a specialty liquor store in New Orleans and they had a bottle just like it for $500.00. It was very good though. Thanks Dick. Now I wish I had kept the empty bottle.

 

[Weimar]

I have some Jim Beam that I received from a subcontractor back in 1981. My jaw fell open and I didn't even tell him I didn't drink. Made my boss mad because he didn't get one. The seal has not been broken, I'm not sure why I keep it.

Have a blessed day,

Leon

Leon, nice bottle. I must say I love the tool chest behind it!

I have one that is fairly boring on the outside, then the lid comes off and its nice wood inside.
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Ref the alcohol being sold - I would assume someone handles auctions like this and has the appropriate licenses. A friend of mine started working for an auction house (guns) and he said that the auction house actually does a LOT more than just guns. So, I'd do a google check

 

[hardcase60]

In the day, Jim Beam, W.L. Weller and Wild Turkey along some I may not remember would put out some amazing decanters. Usually at Christmas but also for commemorative events. hardcase60