Question for Victory Database

[Waidmann]

What is the lowest serial number pre-V, Victory Model you have recorded.

To be most specific, U.S. Property, military finish,etc. specifically excluding commercial grade K-200 variants.

Thanks,
W.

 

[LWCmdr45]

Your stipulations make it difficult to answer your question. For example, “UNITED STATES PROPERTY” markings were not added until after the passage of the Lend-Lease Act; by definition, a “K-200” is chambered in the British .38-200 (aka, .38 Smith & Wesson), but the first martial revolvers acquired by Britain were chambered in .38 Special; and, the phosphate “military finish” did not replace the prewar blued finish until well along in production. Anyway, the database shows…

The lowest numbered example known to have been acquired by Britain was a .38 Special M&P purchased by the British Purchasing Commission: 673056.

The lowest numbered .38-200 example known is one of the “diverted South African” 4-inch models: 685087.

The lowest numbered Lend-Lease example with “UNITED STATES PROPERTY” on the top strap is a 5” .38-200 (originally blued) used by Australia: 791320.

Hope this helps!

Steve

 

[opoefc]

Steve, I notice you referenced 673056 as "acquired" by the BPC, and not "purchased" Is that because it was one of the guns supplied the British as repayment of their $1,000,000 paid for the failed Model 1940 Light Rifle contract, and S&W offered them M&Ps as credit towards the refund monies owed to the British? Ed.

 

[LWCmdr45]

Ed,

Actually, I *did* write "purchased by the B.P.C." However, it is my belief that the revolvers provided by S&W in lieu of the failed 9mm. "Light Rifle" were stipulated by the B.P.C. to all be chambered in the Brit's preferred .38 S&W. (These revolvers were still "purchased" by the B.P.C.; they had just PRE-paid for them!) SN 673056 may have been purchased as a "filler" while they were waiting for the .38 S&W-chambered examples to get off the production line. (SN 673056 was, BTW, a six inch barreled Target Model which was re-chambered to .38-200 on arrival in England. Talk about a weird one!) This is a time, as you know, that the Brits were buying just about *any* gun they could lay their hands on, including Single Action Army, et al., revolvers bought over the counter at gun stores.

Steve

 

[Waidmann]

Thanks guys,
You have cleared this up somewhat. I have a Lend-Lease New Zealander, 954,XXX which I now gather is not remarkable to any degree.

I also have a lettered 685XXX 4 inch that was part of the U of SA shipment. It bears no post-factory markings.

Thanks again.

 

[DCWilson]

Waidmann may have asked the question, but this forum member learned a lot too. I appreciate knowing all these early serial numbers for the different varieties that can be identified. My thanks to the Victory guys and their learned commentators!

 

[Waidmann]

Post script: dbarn in his "S&W Pre-Victory" has a lettered Canadian# 942 974 not U.S. Property but bearing W.B.and bomb. The shipping date is March 19, 1942. The piece has a PO rack number and London proofs.