I have a couple of scandium frame Smiths in 45acp.I was wondering if anyone has any experience in shooting 45 super in these guns? Specifically 325 night guard or 325 Thunder ranch.My normal woods walking gun is a 625-9 mountain gun in 45 colt.But I like the lighter weight of scandium for all day walking.
Question on 45 super
- Thread starter shell627
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The Sierra vol 5 reloading manual has a section for 45 Auto revolver loads. I've used a few of the high end loads in my 325TR without a problem but prefer the standard or plus P loads for most of my shooting. The recoil is much more stout on my old hands with the hot loads so I only use them as needed. These loads should be fine in the scandium frame with limited use.
There is no reason why the Scandium framed N-frames would not hold up to the 45 SUPER
I have put tons of 45 SUPER down range over the decades. Most of it through auto loaders some through my 5" 625 and my 625 V-Comp.
The only reason that I have not tried 45 SUPER in my Night Guards is that none of mine are chambered in 45ACP.
My Night Guards are chambered for 10MM Magnum, 357 Magnum and 41 Magnum
45 SUPER does not approach the pressures of these magnum cartridges and if I owned a 325NG I would be shooting 45 SUPER in it without hesitation
I have put tons of 45 SUPER down range over the decades. Most of it through auto loaders some through my 5" 625 and my 625 V-Comp.
The only reason that I have not tried 45 SUPER in my Night Guards is that none of mine are chambered in 45ACP.
45 SUPER does not approach the pressures of these magnum cartridges and if I owned a 325NG I would be shooting 45 SUPER in it without hesitation
Echo40
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Frankly, unless a firearm, the owners manual, or the manufacturer says that it is safe to fire a cartridge, DON'T DO IT!!!
Seriously, I don't know what it is about folks wanting to hotrod the heck out of their firearms, especially when they're clearly exceeding the margin for safety by firing non-standardized overpressure ammunition. It's expensive, typically uncomfortable, and potentially dangerous to do so, yet apparently folks feel inexplicably drawn to do so.
Yes, I know that some folks have gotten away with doing so with an often undisclosed amount of ammunition, but that doesn't change the fact that the firearm isn't factory approved for such ammo, and therefore should be avoided. If the firearm was capable of holding up to a steady diet of such hot ammo, then obviously the manufacturer would say so, thus providing perspective buyers with further incentive to purchase it.
.45 Super Auto is a wildcat cartridge which little to no firearms are factory rated to fire and typically requires aftermarket modifications to .45 ACP rated firearms to safely fire without risk of harm to the firearm or scooter.
So if you choose to fire .45 Super Auto from your S&W Model 625, then please understand that you are doing so at your own risk, and in a best case scenario you'll only void the warranty on your firearm.
If the .45 ACP +P ammo that your 325 is rated for isn't enough for you, then I recommend trading it in and purchasing something which is factory rated/approved to fire a more powerful cartridge.
I suggest the S&W Model 610 chambered in 10mm Auto, a cartridge which is ballistically similar to .45 Super Auto. Otherwise, start looking into something even more powerful like the Model 57 in .41 Magnum or Model (6)29 in .44 Magnum.
Seriously, I don't know what it is about folks wanting to hotrod the heck out of their firearms, especially when they're clearly exceeding the margin for safety by firing non-standardized overpressure ammunition. It's expensive, typically uncomfortable, and potentially dangerous to do so, yet apparently folks feel inexplicably drawn to do so.
Yes, I know that some folks have gotten away with doing so with an often undisclosed amount of ammunition, but that doesn't change the fact that the firearm isn't factory approved for such ammo, and therefore should be avoided. If the firearm was capable of holding up to a steady diet of such hot ammo, then obviously the manufacturer would say so, thus providing perspective buyers with further incentive to purchase it.
.45 Super Auto is a wildcat cartridge which little to no firearms are factory rated to fire and typically requires aftermarket modifications to .45 ACP rated firearms to safely fire without risk of harm to the firearm or scooter.
So if you choose to fire .45 Super Auto from your S&W Model 625, then please understand that you are doing so at your own risk, and in a best case scenario you'll only void the warranty on your firearm.
If the .45 ACP +P ammo that your 325 is rated for isn't enough for you, then I recommend trading it in and purchasing something which is factory rated/approved to fire a more powerful cartridge.
I suggest the S&W Model 610 chambered in 10mm Auto, a cartridge which is ballistically similar to .45 Super Auto. Otherwise, start looking into something even more powerful like the Model 57 in .41 Magnum or Model (6)29 in .44 Magnum.
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Just because YOU do not understand something, does not automatically mean that it is unsafe
If it were not for folks like Elmer Keith "wanting to hotrod" the 44 Special cartridge, Dirty Harry would not have had a Model 29 to make all those movies with.
Most all cartridge advances over the centuries were made by folks that Did Not work for the factory. That has changed in the last several decades mostly due to Governmental Over-regulation of the firearms industry
BTW, anytime anyone does anything, it is always at their own risk.
Buffalo bore shows actual velocities using the 2.5" 325 for each of these loads.
45 Auto Rim +P Pistol & Handgun Ammunition
As for 45 Super, be real careful if you decide to load your own. There is a ton of data out there that ranges from +P (21k PSI) to 460 Rowland (39K PSI) pressures.
Underwood's 45 +P velocities are not exaggerated -- my 3.6" Kahr CW 45 chronos their 255gr +P 45 acp right at 950 fps.
With the Buffalo Bore 45 AR and Underwood 45 ACP +P you should be able to find something that is more than adequate for Woods Walking in TN without going to the Super.
If you want to use the Super in your 325, give Buffalo Bore a call and ask them if they recommend it.
FWIW
Paul
bigggbbruce
Member
I've said this before... If you want to know what is safe for your gun, may I suggest calling Smith & Wesson and ask them.
Check page 9 of current owners manual.. "Ammunition".. 45ACP can use 45 Auto Rim.. no mention of 45 Super.
Check page 9 of current owners manual.. "Ammunition".. 45ACP can use 45 Auto Rim.. no mention of 45 Super.
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45 Super
I shoot 45 Super in all my 45acp revolvers (325NG, 325TR, 625PC) & several of my 3rd Gen autos (4506, 4586). I handload my own & have never tried Buffalo Bores ammo so I can't comment on them.
One problem with shooting the 45 Supers, in the lightweight Sc/Al models, is bullet jump. The (preferred?) 185gr JHPs don't have a cannelure & usually start to show signs of bullet creep after (3) rounds or so.
For this reason I'd suggest, & like, Sierra's 240gr JHC, in heavy loads in the Sc revolvers, as they have a cannelure. It'd probably be a good choice for your hunting loads too.
(FYI: these bullets have a deeper seating depth than typical 185/200/230gr ACP bullets so you loose some case capacity, comparatively.)
If you do handload use either Starline's 45 Super or their 45 Auto Rim brass; both are equally strong. Power Pistol is my powder of choice (Long Shot second) in these.
As mentioned, Sierra V has a good 45acp revolver section, that has load data that borders on 45 Super power loads, that no one else (manufacturer) has documented, to my knowledge.
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45 Super load in 325NG
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I shoot 45 Super in all my 45acp revolvers (325NG, 325TR, 625PC) & several of my 3rd Gen autos (4506, 4586). I handload my own & have never tried Buffalo Bores ammo so I can't comment on them.
One problem with shooting the 45 Supers, in the lightweight Sc/Al models, is bullet jump. The (preferred?) 185gr JHPs don't have a cannelure & usually start to show signs of bullet creep after (3) rounds or so.
For this reason I'd suggest, & like, Sierra's 240gr JHC, in heavy loads in the Sc revolvers, as they have a cannelure. It'd probably be a good choice for your hunting loads too.
(FYI: these bullets have a deeper seating depth than typical 185/200/230gr ACP bullets so you loose some case capacity, comparatively.)
If you do handload use either Starline's 45 Super or their 45 Auto Rim brass; both are equally strong. Power Pistol is my powder of choice (Long Shot second) in these.
As mentioned, Sierra V has a good 45acp revolver section, that has load data that borders on 45 Super power loads, that no one else (manufacturer) has documented, to my knowledge.
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45 Super load in 325NG
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Is it really true that the 625 didn't receive the same heat treat as the 629? Besides that only thing I'd be worried about is the cylinder wall thickness. I wonder how that compares to a 629. I've really been debating on buying a spare cylinder and sending it to Clark's Customs to have the 460 rowland conversion done.
Bakebfr480
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45 super????
All my 44 Mags (629-6, 329PD, 329NG) have ~.039" cylinder wall thickness at the notch. The outer walls run ~.077" & the notches run ~.038" deep, leaving ~.039", which is the thinnest point.
All my 45acp revolvers (625-8, 325NG, 325TR) run ~.030" at that same thinnest point (~.066" - ~.036").
Making a few calculation (& some assumptions), if the 44Mag cylinder is designed for SAAMI 36K psi (40K cup) loads & the 45acp cylinder is ~77% as thick at the thinnest point, then it should withstand ~28K psi loads.
I feel comfortable shooting 45 Super loads that run in the 25K-27K psi range in them. Personally I would not feel the same about shooting 460 Rowland in it. They run in the 38K-40K cup range (Hodgdon/old Clark Custom data). Others reportedly do it but that's a bridge too far for me. 460 Roland in a custom comp'd 1911 barrel is a different subject.
Clark Customs current web page does not have the detail & data the old pages had on the 460 Roland & their conversions. Don't know why they dropped all that info.?
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Well, a 325 might well handle 45 supers fine, I know my hands won't. I got big mitts that have held lots of hammer, big impact guns (1 1/2" drive), jack hammers etc. My 325 stings enough with any normal 45 ACP load. I can shoot it fine. I wouldn't call it fun. I practice with it after running my cut down steel 45 acp. My 325 is my serious problem carry gun.
I am not a faint at heart heart guy. Load up my 45 colts 255 gr slugs up to 1100fps. Shot +P in my steel 45acp revolvers. Unless, I find some amazing grips I am sticking with normal 200gr loads in my 325. Its not the gun its my hand. Mine is the 2 1/2" barreled gun with the titanium cylinder. The weight of a longer barrel and a steel cylinder might help some with the recoil.
I am not a faint at heart heart guy. Load up my 45 colts 255 gr slugs up to 1100fps. Shot +P in my steel 45acp revolvers. Unless, I find some amazing grips I am sticking with normal 200gr loads in my 325. Its not the gun its my hand. Mine is the 2 1/2" barreled gun with the titanium cylinder. The weight of a longer barrel and a steel cylinder might help some with the recoil.
Exactly and now you showed proof which makes me definitely think my hands, body, and life isn't worth the extra 100 or 200 fps in velocity to try a 460 rowland in a 625. I'll stick to +p and call it good.
Clark only has that they do it and cost on his website I havent called for more info. But with basically running a 45 magnum on cylinder walls that are 23% thinner then a 44 magnum I don't think it might be a great idea. It might work for for a long time but there will be that one time and that's all it takes to go boom and do something really bad. Thanks for posting those specs!
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Sounds like you have the 325PD (matte black or satin clearcoat, with wooden grips)? That's probably another 4-5 oz lighter than my 325NG (27 oz.) I'm guessing?
I'm like you, the bone at the base of my thumb likes to have some cushion between it & the backstrap. Even the pretty Badger grips (wood) I have hurt shooting (+P).
The old style Pachmayr Compac Custom grips weren't bad with the 325NG but I prefer the Pachmayr Diamond Pro's on my other lightweight magnum Night Guards. Much better.
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Pachmayr Diamond Pro's on M357NG with red ramp front sight & adjustable rear sight.
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