Question on load matching 9x23 Win. 125 gr silvertips ?

[bad_man_ one]

I'm trying to match the factory load for Winchester 9x23 125 gr. silvertips.
Does anyone know what powder Winchester uses ?
I show them using 8.7 gr. of a light grey color mixed medium flake/tiny ball powder.
Thanks,
BM1

 

[colt_saa]

9x23 was loaded with the non-cannister version of WAP. We only have access to cannister powders.

I would limit your loading to 8.9 grains of WAP max. This load yields just at 1450FPS from my 5" 1911 when I utilize Winchester brass, Winchester 125JHP projectiles and Winchester primers.

Obviously you need to work up to that slowly to check for signs of pressure in your firearm with your combination of components.

 

[ramptester]

The original load from Winchester was too hot, per one of the major proponents of the round, Dane Burns. I personally have experienced a 25% blown primer rate, with recurrent plugging of the firing pin hole, using the first run of ammo. The more recent batches were not so out of control.

 

[Rule3]

Learn something new everyday here Didn't know anything about 9 x23 so I did a Google and found this site. You probably have it already but if not: On the bottom is some load data and phone numbers.(not sure if the phones are still valid)

All About 9x23

 

[41 fan]

9x23

In my Colt Govt Enhanced, Winchester Silvertips make 1430 fps.
The Speer 125 gr 9mm Gold Dot with 8.5 gr of WAP at 1.265 oal makes
1425 fps. The same charge using the Remington 9mm 125 gr JHP at 1.256 oal makes 1420 fps. Dean

 

[bad_man_ one]

9 m.m. x 23 m.m.

Thanks for all the responses.
I read that Ramshot Silhouette powder is an equivalent replacement.
Is their any data on Ramshot Silhouette for 9x23 to verify this ?
Does anyone know if the charge weight would be the same as the WAP ?
Regards,
BM1

 

[SOUTHPAW]

OCD1....Has the link to Dane Burns 9x23mm infor. and reload infor.
Dane is the man!!!! 9x23mm Rocks!!!!!

 

[bad_man_ one]

Thanks for all the responses.
I read that Ramshot Silhouette powder is an equivalent replacement.
Is their any data on Ramshot Silhouette for 9x23 to verify this ?
Does anyone know if the charge weight would be the same as the WAP ?
Regards,
BM1

Does anybody here use Ramshot Silhouette ?
OR,
Does anybody have any info for 9x23 on any of these powders that I have in my reloading room?;

Alliant Bullseye
Hodgdon Titegroup
Winchester WST
Winchester 231
IMR 700-X
Alliant Unique
Alliant P. P.
Winchester WSF
IMR 800-X
Accurate #7
Alliant Blue Dot
Accurate #9
Alliant 2400
Winchester 296

Regards,
BM1

 

[grendelbane]

I have used Power Pistol and Longshot in the 9x23mm. I couldn't match the Winchester Silver tip with either, with any published data I could find.

Of course, since the Silver Tip hits 1500 FPS in my pistol, that is understandable.

Its a great cartridge. I need to devote more time to it.

 

[bad_man_ one]

Load data direct from WINCHESTER and Western Powders Inc.

colt_saa,

I concur,
I spoke to Paul Nowak at Winchester; he's been with them about 30 years.
He told me to use Western Powders Inc., "RAMSHOT SILHOUETTE".
That powder is the EXACT same powder (Winchester Action Pistol) that Winchester used in the 9 m.m x 23, 125 gr. Silvertip Hollow Points.
And in Winchester's own words, "The strongest case ever built for a center fire cartridge".
Amazing how much the .223 case and a 9x23 Win. case look alike when dissected.

I decapped 50 rounds of the Winchester factory Silvertips to weigh the load.
My rounds had 8.6 - 8.8 grs. of powder.
The powder I pulled from the factory rounds looks EXACTLY like the Ramshot Silhouette powder.
I was able to find one pound in the next state.

Then I spoke to Johan Loubser, Ballistician, Ramshot / Accurate Powders
Tel: 406.234.0422 email: [email protected]
Western Powders Inc., Miles City, Montana

He confirmed what Paul Nowak @ Winchester said;


Bad_Man_One,

SAAMI confirmed the <55000Psi.
In that case we would suggest the following as generic data.

Caliber: 9 m.m. x 23 Winchester.
Barrel length: 5”
COL: 1.300” Min. (We suggest making the COL as long as possible to create the maximum case volume)
Pressure Spec: <55000 PSI / 3792 Bar (SAAMI)
Powder: Ramshot - SILHOUETTE®.
Bullet weight: 124-126 grains. Typical RN lead/cast bullet COL ca 1.300”
Start load: 7.5 grains (ca 1225 Ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 8.9 grains (ca 1430 Ft/p/sec) LD ca 94% PF ca 179
Primer: Small Rifle

NOTES:
It’ important to note that SAFETY is our prime concern therefore we strongly recommend.

1. ALWAYS BEGIN LOADING AT THE RECOMMENDED MINIMUM “START” LOAD and develop loads in 2% increments towards the MAXIMUM load.

2. CAUTION: Beware of double charging if the loading density is below 50% of the available volume.

Example: Most Handgun caliber/powder combinations

3. If possible, measure the velocity and correlate with our data.

Regards,
BM1

 

[shovelwrench]

Notice the most important aspect of his reply, "Small rifle primers". This is what fixes primer flow/blown/sheered....

It is also an important aspect of loading a .38 Super to these velocities in guns that are built to handle it and appropriate components.....