Question on transfering ownership of guns

[David LaPell]

My nephew is graduating high school next month and is planning on moving out of state to Georgia. He has three guns here at my house, a .22 rifle, a 20 gauge shotgun and a muzzleloader. I bought all three from FFL holders and I know the muzzleloader was just a quick sale with a receipt, but how do I get the other two guns out of my name? Do I have to ship them down to Georgia by way of FFL and then he fills out the paperwork on that end? (He is 19). I just want these things out of my house because this kid is going to start becoming a problem, and as much as I hate to say it, I wish I had not bought the guns for him in the first place. The only reason I don't sell the darn things myself is because my mother put up the money and I know she would lost out because the guns are not worth what he paid for them. (I tried to talk him out of them, but he wanted what he wanted).

 

[ncy54]

Quote: "I just want these things out of my house because this kid is going to start becoming a problem, and as much as I hate to say it, I wish I had not bought the guns for him in the first place."

If he's really a growing "problem", why transfer ownership? Sounds to me like a case for selling them to your local FFL or other responsible individual since they are technically "your guns", give the kid the money and let him buy his own when he becomes a Georgia resident. He also gets the chance to learn about "depreciation" and "real value". If you can't bring yourself to do that, do a legal transfer to him in your home state and let him have do any needed paperwork for the change of state residence. Just keep all of YOUR records of legal transfer in a safe place in case any problems arise later.
Seriously though, why get yourself involved in a firearm transfer to a relative that you have concerns about?
All of this is your business, not mine, and the above is MHO.

 

[cp1969]

I second ncy54.

You have no obligation to do anything. You could put them on consignment at a local gun shop. If the kid wants them, he buys them and you give him the money you received from the sale. They are definitely in his name from that point on.

 

[sourdough44]

If it comes where you decide to let him have/take those particular guns, with your worries about the future, take them & him to a gunshop & pay for the legal background check/transfer. It's a needless expense but just tell him it's this way or no way.

 

[deadin]

I agree, get them in his name!
I would be a little concerned about your statement " I bought them.... with my mothers money....and what HE paid for them." Why didn't he just buy them himself?
(or was there a reason he couldn't?)

 

[oldman45]

Maybe I am missing something or else do not understand the situation.

Why do anything? Give him the guns. let him carry them to GA in his car or however. He is old enough to own long guns. They are his guns or will be once you give them to him. You can give a gun to anyone as long as they are legally able to own guns.

Adding more paperwork may create a larger problem just as you stating you bought them for him. That is against federal law so just give the guy the guns as you intended to do at some point in his future.

 

[Ga Johnny]

"moving out of state to Georgia......this kid is going to start becoming a problem"

Man we got enough problems here.....

Why don't you just talk him into staying where he's at that way you won't have to worry about the guns.........yeah that's the ticket.

 

[David LaPell]

The reason I ended up buying the guns for him was a the time he was not 18. They have been in my house because my nephew lives with my mother. His mother lives in Georgia. My mother took custody of him because his mother had legal issues as well as the lack of motivation of finding legitimate work. Now my nephew wants to move down to Georgia, and the combination of his attitude and my sister's sketchy history, I do not want these guns in my name anymore since I bought them beck when we were trying to get him involved in stuff other than video games and other activities where he spend more time in the house than outside. He wanted these guns, he at the time wanted to hunt, but once he actually did it, now he really isn't interested (too much work). But having my names on the original FFL paperwork, and with my work in the sheriff's department, this is just trouble I don't need.

 

[cp1969]

Well don't tell anybody you bought the guns for him because it wasn't legal for him to buy them because he was too young. That's the classic definition of a straw-man purchase--illegal.

 

[Onomea]

If it comes where you decide to let him have/take those particular guns, with your worries about the future, take them & him to a gunshop & pay for the legal background check/transfer. It's a needless expense but just tell him it's this way or no way.

This sounds like a simple approach to me, one that would resolve your concerns.

 

[handejector]

Well don't tell anybody you bought the guns for him because it wasn't legal for him to buy them because he was too young. That's the classic definition of a straw-man purchase--illegal.

No, it is not.
It is the classic definition of a gift, allowed specifcally under the federal regs.

If he can legally own guns, and you can legally transfer guns from one individual to another in your state of residence, simply draw up a Bill of Sale, transferring OWNERSHIP of the guns to him for the amount of $1.
If it makes you feel better, have it notarized as you BOTH sign the TWO copies- one for you, one for him.

 

[oldman45]

No, it is not.
It is the classic definition of a gift, allowed specifcally under the federal regs.

While I am not an expert in the sell, buying or transfer of guns, I have been told a few things over the yrs since the regs were established.

First, I have been informed a person cannot buy a gun for another. A person can buy a gun and give it to someone if they are legally qualified to own such. I bought my daughter a pistol for her to shoot competition. She was 17 at the time and they told me I could not give it to her and it was my gun until such time she was qualified to own it.

Next, buying a gun without being the intended owner constitutes a straw purchase.

I may have been told wrong but that is what gun dealers have been telling me for years. Buying the gun for my daughter almost voided the sale but I could let her use it until she could legally own it and then I gave it to her but by then she was more interested in horses.

 

[deadin]

If he currently can legally own the guns, take Lee's suggestion and transfer them to him on a bill of sale. (As long as both of you are citizens of the same State and the State allows private transfers. If not, it's FFL time.)

 

[handejector]

From the regs on buying the kids a gun-

Instructions on the 4473 allow purchasing a gun as a gift for another-

I only started reading the Regs in 1975 when I got my first FFL, so I may not have it down yet, so understand it is only free advice, and does not constitute legal counsel.

 

[oldman45]

From the regs on buying the kids a gun-

Instructions on the 4473 allow purchasing a gun as a gift for another-

I only started reading the Regs in 1975 when I got my first FFL, so I may not have it down yet, so understand it is only free advice, and does not constitute legal counsel.

Lee, from what you read in the thread, did you get the imprssion the buyer for the underage person was the parent or guardian?

I am sure nothing criminal would come from this incident but by letter of the law, he bought a gun for an underage relative

As I said, the dealer called me to task for buying my daughter a gun to shoot in competition.

I maintain he could just give the young man the guns and nothing would be illegal about it.

 

[ladder13]

I only started reading the Regs in 1975 when I got my first FFL, so I may not have it down yet, so understand it is only free advice, and does not constitute legal counsel.

Another mystery solved.

 

[VM]

The reason I ended up buying the guns for him was a the time he was not 18. They have been in my house because my nephew lives with my mother. His mother lives in Georgia. My mother took custody of him because his mother had legal issues as well as the lack of motivation of finding legitimate work. Now my nephew wants to move down to Georgia, and the combination of his attitude and my sister's sketchy history, I do not want these guns in my name anymore since I bought them beck when we were trying to get him involved in stuff other than video games and other activities where he spend more time in the house than outside. He wanted these guns, he at the time wanted to hunt, but once he actually did it, now he really isn't interested (too much work). But having my names on the original FFL paperwork, and with my work in the sheriff's department, this is just trouble I don't need.

Since your Mother is legal guardian, why didn't she buy the guns for the minor?
The whole thing appears to be a mess and I believe you know it because that's why you are asking for help.
He's going to an unstable place..............he doesn't need any guns there.
Sell {YOUR} guns locally and give your Mom her money back. Wash your hands of the entire mess.
Let him buy his own guns when he get to GA.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Since your Mother is legal guardian, why didn't she buy the guns for the minor?
The whole thing appears to be a mess and I believe you know it because that's why you are asking for help.
He's going to an unstable place..............he doesn't need any guns there.
Sell {YOUR} guns locally and give your Mom her money back. Wash your hands of the entire mess.
Let him buy his own guns when he get to GA.

Sounds about right to me. On paper, they are YOUR guns. The money is a separate issue you can handle any way you want. You would probably be safe sending them to an FFL in GA, or even just giving them to him as Oldman recommends, but it is clear that YOU are uncomfortable about him and guns. If you are, I am. Do what VM said and be clear of the whole thing. If the kid wants guns and isn't in any trouble, he'll have no problem buying them in GA.

Leastways, that's how I see it.

 

[roarindan]

Dave, you know when you give/sell those guns to him he'll be responsible for their legal transfer down to Ga. When he finds out the hassle of properly getting those guns there, he'll probably simply sell 'em here for gas money.
Talk to him bout that tell him thats the only way these guns will leave your sight, then offer him $100.00.

 

[bk43]

...having my names on the original FFL paperwork, and with my work in the sheriff's department...

Red flag! This says you may live in a nanny state which means most here, and certainly me included, have no idea what is required to transfer a firearm legally. If you do live in a nanny state be specific about where you are and get advice from those familiar with your state law.

Bob