Question: Re 1917 Rifling and Lead Bullets

[dlidster]

I have read on this forum and others that S&W 1917 revolvers have shallow rifling and prefer jacketed bullets. It seems to be implied that they won't provide acceptable accuracy with lead bullets. Is this based on a long-accepted theory or actual experience by people participating on this forum?

Here's why I ask. I have shot hard-cast lead bullets (both BHN 14 and BHN 18-20) 200 gr SWCs and plated bullets (softer swaged) 200 gr SWCs and 230 gr RN in my 1917. Accuracy is great with all of them. There's no evidence of tumbling or any other lack of stability.

The bore of this 1917's barrel is like new. Is there a chance that this theory started with barrels that might have worn a little more quickly as a result of having not-so-high lands?

I'll appreciate any input offered. In the meantime I think I'll slug and mike my barrel to see how the land and groove diameters compare with my other 45s. If and when I accomplish this, I'll report back.

 

[11e40]

homemade cast w/w 180 gr. sized to .309 w/gas ck works for me in my 1917 enfield. hth.

 

[nawilson]

homemade cast w/w 180 gr. sized to .309 w/gas ck works for me in my 1917 enfield. hth.

I think the OP is talking about the M1917 revolver, not the 1917 rifle. I wonder if that's why the Army stopped naming weapons after the year they were adopted

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[Texas Star]

I think the OP is talking about the M1917 revolver, not the 1917 rifle. I wonder if that's why the Army stopped naming weapons after the year they were adopted

.

I'm sure he means the S&W revolver. The Colt M-1917 may also have this issue. Elmer Keith mentiond it in his old writings. Seemed to think the answer was fairly hard cast bulets.

I had a Model of 1950 Target .45 and it shot factory Auto Rim ammo badly. I suspect the lead was too soft.

Keith warned of wearing out M-1917 barrels with as few as 5,000 jacketed rounds. I quit buying .45ACP revolvers.

 

[Muley Gil]

1917 revolvers tend to shoot hard cast bullets well. Soft lead bullets, usually not as well, though some folks do get good results.

"Keith warned of wearing out M-1917 barrels with as few as 5,000 jacketed rounds. I quit buying .45ACP revolvers."

TS, IIRC, old Elmer wrote that he was having having problems with soft 1911 barrels. He said that a friend of his in the National Guard woud drop by and bring him a case of .45 ACP and a new 1911 barrel.

I have looked at a number of 1911 barrels that were almost smoothbore from shooting and lack of cleaning after firing corrosive ammo.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

The rifling is shallow in 1917's, and for that matter, most, if not all, S&W's in 45 ACP right from the start, not from wear. The original 1917 was designed to shoot the same mil spec hardball as the 1911, so it has the same shallow rifling in it.

Most 45 revo's with shallow rifling prefer hard cast slugs since they tend to take the rifling without skidding and thus leading the bore. I can get good accuracy with soft swaged lead in my 25-2, but it drops off in 50 rounds or less due to the leading, which is getting pretty bad by that point, and requires serious use of the Lewis Lead Remover to get rid of it.

 

[spad124]

For an unscientific viewpoint, my 1917 revolver has poor accuracy, 6-8 inches at 15 yards, with cast bullets. It will group 3-4 inches with Remington factory hardball. However, its best accuracy is 2-3 inches at 15 yards with plated 230 grain bullets in auto rim cases propelled by 231.

When I first bought my 1917 there was, what turned out to be, substantial leading in the barrel. At first I couldn't get it out and thought the leading was corrosion. However, between cleaning and shooting hardball the leading has come out.