Question regarding 4053TSW - DAO or ????

[SIGWolf]

My local FFL has a 4053TSW I was handling yesterday. I expected it to be DAO as the SWSC says. To me that means when the hammer is down you pull the trigger and it cocks then drops the hammer.

This particular gun operates more like what I would consider SAO. You have to rack the slide for it to work but there is no decocker or safety which just doesn't make any sense to me at all.

Is this gun malfunctioning or is this what DAO means for this model?

 

[SIGWolf]

My local FFL has a 4053TSW I was handling yesterday. I expected it to be DAO as the SWSC says. To me that means when the hammer is down you pull the trigger and it cocks then drops the hammer.

This particular gun operates more like what I would consider SAO. You have to rack the slide for it to work but there is no decocker or safety which just doesn't make any sense to me at all.

Is this gun malfunctioning or is this what DAO means for this model?

 

[KurtC]

That model is similar to a Glock, Kahr and Beretta C series. The hammer is partially cocked by the slide. Pulling the trigger completes the cocking process and then releases the hammer.

It makes for a shorter trigger pull.

 

[SIGWolf]

Thanks for the clarification. So, it's really not DAO.

 

[KurtC]

Anything that has only one trigger pull, and isn't a single action, is considered DAO by most manufacturers. Here is something I posted on another thread:

DAO was a simple term when it only applied to revolvers. It simply meant that you could not cock the hammer and fire it single action, as there was no cocking notch on the hammer.

If you apply it to autos, it includes both hammer and striker fired actions. The only standard rule is that the hammer or striker is not completely cocked, ready to fire.

Many DAO autos have a hammer or striker that is partially cocked, to make the trigger pull shorter. These include Glocks, Kahrs, Beretta C models and most metal framed Smiths. Some are not cocked at all, much like a revolver. These include Beretta D series pistols. Others have two different DA pulls, like the Sig DAK series. Still others have a cocked sear, without a cocked hammer. These include Para LDA series.

Having a 2nd strike is a tactical non-issue, since most tactical "clicks" are caused by an unseated or missing magazine. This requires a tap-rack-scan-bang response, just to be sure.

However, when plinking on the range using inexpensive or questionable ammunition, a 2nd strike is a safe and convenient way to fire the cartidge. If you have a DAO that needs to be partially cocked, you simply have to retract the slide a 1/2 inch or so to reset it.

 

[TheGreatGonzo]

Originally posted by TenMan:
This particular gun operates more like what I would consider SAO. You have to rack the slide for it to work but there is no decocker or safety which just doesn't make any sense to me at all.

I'm a bit confused by your description. Maybe you could step it out for me? This is how it should work on that pistol: You load a mag. You insert a loaded mag into the weaapon. You work the slide to chamber the first round. At that point, the weapon should be completely safe with the hammer down (technically it is partially cocked, but it does not look that way). It is completely safe to carry that way. When you squeeze the trigger and fire a round, the slide actuates and "re-cocks" the pistol, but, again, it would still be considered "hammer down" and in DAO mode. Is your pistol doing something different?
Gonzo

 

[PPCSHOOTER]

WHAT YOU EXPERIENCED THERE WAS A TRUE DAO. IT HAS WHAT IS CALLED BY S&W AS "SINGLE STRIKE CAPABILITY". THE HAMMER IS HELD ON A NOTCH, PRE COCKING THE HAMMER HALFWAY. THIS RESULTS IN A SHORTER, EASIER TRIGGER PULL. WHEN LOOKING AT THE R LEFT SIDE OF THE SLIDE THE HAMMER BLOCK,SAFETY BARREL WILL BE ROUND . ON THE NEWER STYLE THE HAMMER BLOCK SAFETY BARREL IS A REVERSED "L" SHAPE. THESE HAMMERS ARE HELD AT A 1/4 PRE COCK RESULTING IN A LONGER HARDER TRIGGER PULL. JP

 

[SIGWolf]

I used to SIGs with the standard DA/SA triggers.

DAO to me means that the hammer is at rest, fully "uncocked". When you pull the trigger the hammer is cocked then dropped. After each round the hammer returns to being fully at rest and the trigger must once again perform two actions, cocking then dropping the hammer. A true DAO has "double-strike" capability whether it is tactically relevant or not. If the round does not fire and the slide does not cock the hammer you can pull the trigger again and the trigger will cock the hammer and drop it again. The gun is not capable of SA. You can't manually cock the hammer. DAO guns generally do not have a safety or decocker mechanism.

SAO to me means you must first cock the hammer of the pistol to fire, either by manually cocking it or racking the slide. The hammer is fully cocked and the trigger only has to perform one action, dropping the hammer. There is no double-strike capability if the round fails to fire. The trigger cannot cock the hammer. Usually guns which are SAO have a safety.

DA/SA means the gun can be fired with the hammer fully decocked. The fist round can be either SA if you have racked the slide or manually cocked the hammer or DA. After the first shot the hammer is fully cocked and the action is SA. Usually these guns have a decocker at least. They have double strick capability.

I was once taken to task severely by a Shooting Instructor for erroneously referring to a Glock as DAO because the hammer is partially cocked AND there is no "double strike" capability. He was very distress I would mislead someone by calling a Glock DAO.

So, if you follow that reasoning no firearm for which the hammer is partially cocked and has no double strick capability should be referred to as DAO. The trigger has only partially cock the hammer then drop the hammer and it has no double strike capability.

Now coming to my experience. I handled the 4053 at the FFL. When I pulled the trigger nothing happened because the hammer was not cocked. I racked the slide and the hammer went to what appeared to be a fully decocked position, the trigger "cocked" the hammer and dropped it at that point. However the next trigger pull did nothing. What confused me was that the gun appeared to be DAO to me and that is how it is described in the SWSC. However, you apparently had to fully or partially cock the hammer for the gun to fire even though the hammer didn't appear to be cocked. So, it did indeed operate like a Glock and some other striker fired hanguns. That is not what I generally associate with the term DAO.