Questions about elderly .30-06 brass and bullets

[David Sinko]

I recently acquired a nice quantity of brass and bullets. Included was a fairly large amount of what appears to be once fired .30-06 brass. It's mostly military brass with headstamps that go back as far as 1940 and was clearly shot out of a Garand. It's deprimed (does not appear to be resized) and looks to have been cleaned by an unknown method. A few of them have some kind of white stuff growing in the primer pockets. Was this brass originally loaded with corrosive priming? Is it still good for reloading? I have and use brass from 1942 that's still going strong, but I personally pulled the bullets and deprimed them, so it was basically unfired brass. I'm just wondering if brass that was fired just once between 1940 and now is still good to load.

I also have a bunch of .308" 150 gr. FMJ made with a steel jacket and lead core. Out of the 500 or so that I have, I'd say that about 10% are defective in that they have only a partial core or no core at all. On some of them the core extends slightly below the base of the bullet. Each bullet has two cannelures that are close together. I'm wondering how these were made. Were the cores pressed in or poured? How can some of the jackets be only partially filled? I don't know if these bullets were pulled from loaded rounds or sold off to the public or what, but I'm surprised by the number of high rejects. And is it advisable to shoot these bullets out of a modern stainless steel barrel or a barrel that has been chrome lined without damaging the barrel?

Dave Sinko

 

[LittleCooner]

Brass is way to old, its 75 years old, just like looking for a tight end for you football team and going to the old folks home and looking at that 75 year old guy with a cane in his hand. Please send the once fired brass to me and I will dispose of it for you.

On a serious note, the brass should be great. I have read that it could harden some over time, that I have no real comment on, other that if you have any friends with an annealing device, annealing the necks should make this stuff just as good as anything you could purchase today. Just clean the stuff, they make a little hand held device (RCBS) to scrape out primer pockets. Sounds like someone removed the primer crimp. You did not mention what type gun you have to shoot this in, but if you are looking for accuracy, I would sort the stuff by headstamp, year, etc and put in lots instead of just lumping them in all. On age, I have a few rounds of LC Match in 30-06 with a 67 (1967) head stamp. Surfing the online forum a few years ago, I saw where the 1000 yard shooter were paying a big premium to purchase brass made in the late 60's at Lake City because it was better (producing better groups and lasting longer on reloads) that anything they could purchase today.

Do not have any knowledge or input on you bullet question. If I wanted to shoot them, think I would hand sort the ones that look ok from a visual inspection and them set up my scale and quickly weigh those that passed the inspection and sort the ones to shoot that all weighed near the same. Sounds like someone found a batch of seconds on sale. The good ones should be the same to shoot as any other normal lead and jacket bullet. I would not think they "pored" the lead in these. I have no knowledge of manufacturing a full metal jacket where the base is exposed, but all the other type hunting bullets are made by dropping a lead core into a copper jacket, seating the core and them pointing up the bullet. I expect these were made in a similar process as that is the industry standard for all hunting bullets, except the new solid copper bullets.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Hi! Is your WWII fired brass still good? Most likely. The white stuff around the primer pockets? Some sort of corrosion or oxidation! It is not corrosion from mercury based primers; that is green and sometimes moist or slimy, I've seen it dry also. Where the brass originally corrosive primed? YES, U.S. military brass was primed that way until the late 40's-early 50's (until they used up the supply on hand, the next priming compound was Chlorine based and left a layer of "salt" after being shot (often called Semi-corrosive)

About your cores: They sound like rejects or seconds. you could most likely load the and they would be safe, however they would have low potential for accuracy! (The normal expectation is for ammo to hit what we are shooting at! However you could make ammo that you know is poor to let other people shoot, just to make them miss. This is normally called cheating or fraud!) I would melt them down to recycle the lead into other ammo and dispose of the jackets. If you don't do casting give or trade them to someone who will. Cores are normally inserted into a mostly shaped jacket and final formed into place. One way to make machine gun ammo "scatter" was to put a aluminum cone inside the tip of the jacket and a shorter lead core. The British did this whit varying results in 303 Brit ammo for fighter planes. Having a hollow area in the point of the bullet causes the center of gravity to further back, this type of ammo tumbles on impact (like 5.56 ammo used in Vietnam), This get more damage and less penetration. When done correctly accuracy is still good. Your bullets sound like whatever they were suppose to be, they aren't! Ivan

 

[jpage]

Could be tracer rounds that weren't completed

 

[rwsmith]

I'd anneal a few......

I'd clean and check the primer pockets and reload a few and look for mouth splits. If you get splits, I'd anneal a few cases and try again.

 

[Culina]

If you are concerned about corrosive residue on the brass, you can always wet clean them with some hot/warm soapy water then dry them in the sun. I had some of that Korean KA headstamp stuff rust my dies before I figured it out. At least I didn't rust any Garands.

As far as missing bases on the projectiles, it sounds like they were tracers, but the AP projectiles had two cannelures I believe I have never held a tracer though since in California, the possession of each one is a fellony, If I had more time this morning I would try to dig some out of "the stockpile" and confirm. But this too had some kind of a copper cup at the base.

 

[growr]

Use them!! They will be fine....process them and have fun...

Randy

 

[Nevada Ed]

I have some old GI brass and it is still kicking after years of light target loads.
I would tumble it and see if they pass your inspection.

As for the "Almost" bullets, you can add them to your box/collection of interesting bullets or send them down range.
I would vote for the collection box, so you could maybe post a picture some day, if needed.
Always nice to be able to say....... "Yep, I have some of those".

Good loading.

 

[David Sinko]

I figured the brass should be good. I'll load a few of the worst looking ones and see how they hold up. But I'm more curious about the bullets. Some that are half filled have tiny beads of lead on the outside of the jacket, like the lead melted out at some point. I don't know if they're manufacturing defects or if they were subjected to some kind of trauma (heat) after they were made. They don't all have manufacturing defects, as most of them look very good. As for being tracers, I don't think so. Whatever sticks out below the base is definitely lead and the tips are not colored. I am confused about the partially filled jackets and apparently melted cores. Am I correct in assuming that the lead cores would be pressed into the jackets and not poured in while they were liquid?

The only .30-06 rifle I own is a Ruger 77 Mk II with a stainless steel barrel. How would the bore tolerate the steel jackets? The bore of my SCAR 17 is chromed, but I'm reluctant to subject such an expensive rifle to steel jacket bullets of dubious origin. I suppose I could even try them in my various AKM rifles. Most of them have chromed bores and they shoot surprisingly well with .308" bullets after a bit of experimentation.

Dave Sinko

 

[Nevada Ed]

Not 30-06 ammo but a good read on Steel bullets.

Brass vs. Steel Cased Ammo - An Epic Torture Test

 

[Culina]

The jackets are bi-metal which would be copper plated mild steel. The lead cores would normally be cut from a drawn out wire, and then swaged into the already formed jackets.

 

[Rule3]

The "crud" on the brass may be a form of Verdigris,

Many ways to clean it off. a dilute vinegar solution and brush. Try some baking soda after.

The question on old brass is just how brittle it may be?? Resize a few after cleaning and give them a try, Worst case is they split.

 

[Geno44]

I have some WWII brass and the Denver '42 is splitting almost every time it is fired in a Garand. It doesn't split when fired in a bolt action gun. I have quit using it altogether as it's not worth blowing a gun to save a few cents.

 

[Leslie Sapp]

I inherited a couple of hundred fired cases of 1952-54 era stuff that was black and crusty with corrosion and verdigris.
30 minutes in a bath of 50/50 hot water/vinegar plus a couple hours tumbling in walnut media with a tablespoon of car polishing compound added, and they looked like new!

 

[Freischütz]

I never had a problem with WW2 brass. I did have problems with WW1 cases(split necks) and some pre WW2 Peters cases (multiple small splits just in front of the solid head).

 

[rockquarry]

I wouldn't load brass that old. New brass may be more expensive than it's ever been, but considering the number of times it can be loaded, it's not that high.

Probably a waste of components to load the defective bullets and something may stick in the bore, so there's also a safety aspect.

Annealing? This shouldn't be necessary unless you've done some radical case forming. If a .30-06 case needs annealing, it's probably tired brass that should be disposed of.