Questions and a story about a Winchester 94

mainegrw

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My grandfather has a Winchester 94 in 38-55, serial number 154XXX. As a favor to him I borrowed it to give it a gentle cleaning and lubrication, as it has been sitting in a gun cabinet largely untouched for 40 or so years and has started to develop some small rust spots. While I have it, I decided to do some research on it which has brought up some questions about it, but first, a little on the what I know of its history:

The serial number suggests that this gun was made in 1899. The only thing I know about its early life is the possible initials of its first owner, A.G.T., which is lightly stamped in several locations on the stock and forend. The rifle eventually wound up in the possession of my grandfather's uncle, purchased used in the late 30s or early 40s, following a poor deer hunting experience involving a rifle chambered for .32-20. Apparently, my grandfather's uncle, unable to take a deer in a single shot with the .32-20, chased the wounded animal for several miles, before loosing it to a fellow hunter with a higher power rifle. The 94 served my family well for several years before being lent to friends and replaced with a 1937 vintage Savage 99 in 300 Savage (we still have this one too). The rifle eventually came back into the family, and into my grandfather's hands who continued to hunt with it until the 1970s when he stopped hunting, and really shooting all together. It took my extreme interest in the shooting sports to get him back into shooting, and I take him to the range a few times a year.

As you can probably imagine, decades of use have had an effect on its condition, and she has very little of her bluing left. That aside, with the exception of some minor rust and pitting, everything appears to be in great working shape. The patina and its condition, I feel helps tell her story, but I have the ambition to maintain this rifle, to try to preserve her the best I can, so she can continue to tell her story for the generations to come. Thoughts and tips on maintaining an antique such as this are greatly appreciated, as I am not well versed in lever guns.

I end my post with a question: All examples of 1899 vintage Winchester 94s that I have seen online in photos have octagon barrels. This particular 94 has a round barrel. I am curious if anyone happens to know when Winchester switched from octagon to round barrels. I am worried that the barrel may not be original, replaced sometime between its manufacture date and when it came into my family's possession. Adding to my worry is the fact that both the barrel and tube magazine show a lot less wear and loss of bluing compared to the receiver, and pretty much any other piece of metal on the gun, which has almost no bluing left at all. Thoughts and information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
 
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Here's an older round barrel .30/30 with an antique serial number. Round barrels were not uncommon on older 1894 rifles. LeRoy Merz Antique Firearms ~ The World's Largest Antique Winchester Dealer. Also, the receivers were made of a type of steel that tended not to hold the bluing very well, and it is common to see older '94's with almost nothing left on the receiver and pretty good finish on the barrel and tube. I wouldn't worry about it if everything else looks right.
 
Actually, round barrels were standard on rifles. Octagon barrels were optional. During that time period, it was thought that octagon barrels, generally being heavier, were more accurate. Since the cost difference was slight, most dealers ordered octagon barrels, and if they sold a round barrel rifle, it was usually on order for a customer.

Times change and somewhere in the period before WWI round barrels on rifles started becoming more common than octagon.

Regarding receivers, many were finished not in blue, but were case hardened as standard. For blued receivers, the case hardening was difficult to blue and wore through quickly. This is why you see a receiver with no blueing yet the barrel looks hardly worn. The regular case hardening was a grayish color. Color casing was optional at extra cost. As the receivers transitioned to a better carbon steel, the need for case hardening went away.
 
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Carbines always had round barrels. Rifle could be had with round or octagon, or special-ordered with octagon-to-round.
 
Most of these were carried with the hand on the receiver. Sweaty, salty palms probably hurried the loss of blue there compared to the bbl.

I have seen this wear on newer old 94's, the bottom metal on bolt action rifles and shotguns.
 
The bbl bluing on those era 94's was 'rust bluing'
The bluing on the rec'vr at the time was a different process and is generally called 'charcoal bluing'

The rust bluing is a wear resistant finish when compared to other types of bluing finishes of which there are several. Rust blue is still used on most SxS shotgun bbl sets because of the soft soldered rib assembly which degrades when blued in more modern hot salt bluing techniques and won't stand the high temps of the charcoal and similar types..

Charcoal blue was the industry standard for just about all arms mfg'r into the early part of the 20th century. Labor intensive (labor was cheap) and a beautiful finish resulted.
Colt, Savage, H&R, Marlin,,you name it,,they used it. The bbls on long guns (rifles) were generally rust blued due to their length. The only production rifle I can think of off hand that was charcoal blued was the Henry.

Anyway, the charcoal blue finish (and it's later replacement, the more mechanized Carbona Gas Furnace blue) had a tendency to wear and actually flake off of the surface of the Winchester rifles and shotguns. Probably due to the steel alloy, perhaps heat treatment.
But it is not uncommon at all to find a rifle or even an early M12 or M97 shotgun with nearly all of it's bbl and wood finish still in tact but the metal finish on the rec'vr nearly gone with just some normal use as if it had just been wiped off to bare steel.

Sounds like a nice 94 you have there and one well worth remaining in the family and keeping it just the way it is as a reminder of those that have owned and used it before you.
 
You have something special. While the gun and caliber are prized, it is the family history and the fact nobody has ruined it by sprucing it up. All the dents, bumps and rub marks are this guns and your grandfathers history. All those wear marks tell stories that once refinished and re-blued will forever and ever be erased. I find true beauty in a well worn coin, knife or gun. Few guns today will ever have such use your rifle has. Cherish the beauty and history. It has been a few decades since I made an in depth study of the 1894's but IIRC only 1 in 9 RIFLES has round barrels. I have hunted some with 1894's, taking a few antelope with a round barrel 25-35. I killed a bull elk with an 1894 in 38-55 made in 1896. A few deer have also fallen to an 1894 half round, rifle with express sights and button magazine. A true 3 option gun in 30 WCF. And by the way no teasing us without supplying pictures. I liken it to being in a man camp and the new guy will not quit talking about his beautiful girlfriend but will not let anyone see her picture. Just not cool.
 
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Carbines always had round barrels. Rifle could be had with round or octagon, or special-ordered with octagon-to-round.
I have Winchester Carbine I bought new in the 60s.
John

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I have a model 94 made in 1913 that is real nice with good wood ,recvr is worn . also have a 94 from 1941 it looks that way.
 
And by the way no teasing us without supplying pictures. I liken it to being in a man camp and the new guy will not quit talking about his beautiful girlfriend but will not let anyone see her picture. Just not cool.

I don't know what I was thinking not throwing some photos in with the original post, but anyway here you go...


Here is the Winchester 94 along side her younger sister the Savage 99, another very beautiful gun.

Thank you all for the info, I was not aware of the different bluing techniques used on different parts of the same gun. I had always assumed that the bluing was the same all the way through on a firearm, but I can see how different processes would be appropriate for each piece or assembly. Additionally, now that you all mention the octagon barrel being an optional add-on I seem to recall reading that somewhere. The idea that Winchester started manufacturing with octagon barrels and switched to round must have come from somewhere else, perhaps a statement proven to be false in relation to the Winchester 1906 gallery gun I have.
 
Very nice! A vote here for Renaissance Pre-Lim and Wax for preserving the outside finish on both of these rifles.
 
What a beautiful pair of early 20th century hunting rifles. Pure class. Another member has subjected some sort of wax and products to preserve these guns, I have never heard of or used these products. I would apply nothing rather than something that alters these honest guns. The products may do no harm, I do not know, but I would research them thoroughly before use. On thing I do with all my antique guns is remove the buttplates to check for any personal information secreted away. I have found many things under the butts. Lastly your Savage appears original except for the swivels. Older Savage 99's have a problem that need to be addressed before shooting. The stock shrinks with age. Where the butt meets the back of the receiver, the stock will crack because of this shrinkage. It is so common it is given a name, the 99 split. The good news is that a simple fix can be done with no special tools and can be done by the owner in a short time and there will be no evidence of any work done. I have split 2 99 stocks before I wised up. You can research this cure on 24 hour campfire forum under the sub forum Savage. I would not fire it till the fix was done. One other tip, resist taking down the 99 as over time it will loosen up.
 
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