Questions for revolver competitors

[S&W1006]

I have gotten involved in competitive shooting over the past few years. I am going to branch out this year and try some different matches. In my area we have IDPA, USPSA, and ICORE is not too far away. I plan to try all 3 and see which one suits me the best. I woll be competing in the production class. I have fallen in love with S&W revolvers thanks to my 617-2. It has made me a better shooter even with my Ruger Security Six which has a very heavy trigger pull. I plan to compete with a revolver some and also my M&P Pro 40. I am saving to buy a S&W revolver to compete with. I like the Ruger but the heavy trigger pull is a disadvantage and I have already lightened it as much as I can. Here are my choices for revolvers. I have loved the 627 performance center since the first time I shot my friends 627. I also like the 8 shot capacity. IDPA rules doesn't allow revolver barrels longer than 4 inches so I would need to get the 4 inch pro version. Also stock classes recquire speedloaders and no moonclips from what I've read. I have also heard the 8 shot moonclips are flimsy and don't work well for fast reloads. I have found speedloaders for the 8 shot revolvers but they are not cheap. My next choice is the 686 SSR Pro. It has the slab side barrel I love it has a 4 inch barrel and speedloaders are plentiful and cheap. The cost for the 686 SSR and the 627 Pro are the same. I am leaning toward the 686 SSR but I do love the N frame 627. I would loveto just buy both but that won't happen this year. I already load 38/357 and have lots if brass and components on hand. I also have considered the 625 in 45 acp but that puts me in a different class in some matches plus I don't load for 45 yet and I don't have much brass. I hope over the next couple of years to buy all of the revolvers I want but for now I have to only buy one. What are the pro's and cons that you guys who compete with revolvers see with my choices. Thanks.

 

[imashooter2]

IDPA doesn't let you load more than 6, so an 8 shot is a losing proposition. The 8 shot could shoot production in USPSA or Revolver as long as you only shoot 6 then reload. It is perfect for ICORE Limited.

8 shot moons work fine for competition with the right brass. Lots of the top ICORE competitors use the 627. I use one as well, but I'm a hack in the pack.

One pistol to use with reasonable competitiveness in all three sports would be a 4 inch 625. 2nd choice would be the SSR. The SSR would give up a bit in USPSA Revolver, but would work fine in IDPA SSR and ICORE Classic.

Go to the IDPA, USPSA and ICORE web sites and download their rulebooks. Check out all the equipment restrictions before you decide.

 

[S&W1006]

Thanks imashooter 2. I actually have been reading the rules on all 3 of the sights. I'm torn honestly. I know I can only buy one of the revolvers listed this year and I really want the 8 shot 627 and I want the 5 inch performance center version but that knocks me out of IDPA. I might just take IDPA off the menu. I also want a 625JM as well and I plan to start saving up for that one. My biggest problem I forsee is the matches that only let you load 6 in a 8 shot is staging the cylinder quickly during reloads. You said you compete with the 8 shot does it cause you any problems? Thanks for the help.

 

[imashooter2]

I shoot ICORE with a 5 inch PC 627. The gun fits in Limited class and the rules let you load and shoot all 8. I have no issues with the gun whatsoever except that the front sight seems to disappear when the timer goes off. .38/.357 moon clips are more fragile than speed loaders and they are brass sensitive. You have to buy the right combination for the cartridges to be held firmly and provide good reloads. On the up side, you get all your brass back.

USPSA Revolver division will let you load all 8, but only shoot 6 before reloading. USPSA Production or Open would let you load and shoot all 8, but the wheel gun isn't competitive in those classes unless you have a pretty impressive skill set.

The dominant revolver in USPSA is the 625 because it makes major easily and reloads very quickly. In ICORE, target arrays are supposed to be "6 shot neutral" and power factor is centered around the .38 Special. There are some stages where an 8 shot is an advantage but not many. If you miss once in awhile, it's nice to have extra rounds in the cylinder (see the disappearing sight comment above).

 

[wantmoresmiths]

I suggest basing your choice on which revolver sport allows you the greatest access. I'm about an hour North of Dale (Imashooter2) he has greater access (meaning less travel) to USPSA matches than I do. So for me a revolver suited to USPSA is not a priority. Up my way we have more IDPA and steel challenge type matches. Dale and I see each other at the two or three local ICORE matches each year. Keep this in mind - IDPA is usually not revolver friendly. Most courses of fire are set up for the 8 and 10 shot semi-autos. Icore, which I believe is the most challenging, is not very popular on the east coast. Around here, eastern PA.,we usually have 3 local ICORE matches each year, with one of them being the East Coast Regional championship. There are about 3 or 4 ICORE matches around Martinsburg W.V. each year. I believe there is a major ICORE match in New York, each year. I did recently read about some ICORE in Florida, but it too seemed pretty limited.

For me, I started with a 627PC mostly for steel, but it also works for ICORE. Then I bought a 5" model 610, for ICORE (limited), which I can also use for USPSA. I stick with my 1911's for IDPA and USPSA. Again, IDPA and steel are the most readily available matches for me and my son. My son did decide he wanted to try something different for IDPA, so he went out and bought a 4" model 66. It is also acceptable for classic in ICORE but the 4" barrel isn't very popular in ICORE. Instead he uses his 6.5" model 610, and beats the pants off of me at every match.

If you do decide to try ICORE be sure to PM me about this years East Coast Regional. It's a pretty good drive for you, but it a great match. Plus you get a chance to meet Josh Lentz, who is probably the top revolver shooter in the country next to Jerry.

 

[madmikeb]

I would go with a 625. I've shot competitively with a 625 and 610, have a 627 but have never shot it in a match because of not being able to load and shoot all 8 rounds in USPSA. The 625 with 230 RN loads is by far the quickest to reload of the three, those big 230 grainers just about fall into the cylinder on the reload. The bigger hole can also mean more points, on a marginal hit, a 10 with a .45 could only be an 8 with a 10mm or a .357.

 

[S&W1006]

I have heard the 625 is the easiest to load fast. I know I won't be able to stand it until I have one of each. I had considered a 4" model 66 which would be the cheapest option but I really want the option of moonclips. If I could find a 5" 610 that didn't cost as much as a Performance Center revolver I would love to have one. I actually want a 4",5", and a 6-6.5" 610. I am a 10mm fan and have reloaded for it for years already. The problem with the 610's they can be hard to come by especially at a reasonable price. Imashooter you mentioned the 38/357 moonclips are brass sensitive. Whoch brand have you found that work well with them. Thanks for all the help guys.

 

[m657]

Here's my own *opinion* for OP to consider:

ICORE
Advantages of 8 shot 627 is largely moot, as our club has '6-shot neutral' design on about 95% of the stages.

Steel Challenge: good 8 shot choice but it's made my accuracy and time better so isn't needed so often as 5 shots connect about 90% of my own stages now.

610 3 9/16"/whatever barrel is my favorite for both of these events as it fits my hand/eye just right. Plus the 10mm for pins works very well....I'm just too slow to be competitive there.

625 does astounding reloads, but somehow I don't shoot it as well as the 627/610. Had the factory 'master tune' on it, it is magnificent but somehow I'm not fond of it.

Newcomer for me, and at this point I'd rather use my 10 shot 617 4", both for sheer pleasure as well as current economics.

I much prefer revolvers in any game to the bottom feeder alternative...yet the GSSF match is a lot of fun as well.

Personally I see no real advantage to 8-shot cylinder in the local matches.

The 627 Vmag and 610 have long been my most accurate rapid fire revolvers, but the 617 is making room for itself.

 

[Tanners Owner]

I shoot idpa with a used S&W 15, my daughter with a M10. We are competitive within the SSr division. Neat thing is a used M15 or M10 can be found for $300-400 easily where I live. Holster, 3 speed loaders & carriers and you are ready to go. I don't feel disadvantaged with a revolver as I compete against other revolver shooters. While I want to shoot it in USPSA,
I shoot USPSA with my M&P 9 in production class, as I don't have enough speed loaders & carriers

 

[BobR1]

Another option not considered so far is having a Moon Clip Conversion done on the 686 SSR cylinder.

It will still load with Comp III's or Jet Loaders for IDPA.

It will also work with moon clips for matches where allowed.

Costs about $115 for the cylinder conversion. Mail in the cylinder only for the work, so you are not Robbed Blind on shipping charges.

Next you will need to sort brass, if like most of us you have a bucket full of 38 range brass. The under cut on 38's are not the same, so you will need to sort brass.

Winchester brass has a thin under cut and requires a Winchester only clip. (.020 Thick)

I just sort out Remington and Federal brass for mine. They use a .025 thick clip) Most other brass will also work with this clip except Winchester and Starline.

TK also carries a Starline clip that is .025 thick just for Starline Brass.

Welcome to TK Custom.com & Moonclips.com

I have the Delux Moon Clip Tool for mine with Arbors for 38, 40/10mm, and 45acp.
Deluxe Moon Clip Tool

Just another option.

Bob

 

[gr7070]

An 8-shot revolver is not an option in IDPA. Not if you want to be competitive. It's that simple.

It sounds like ICORE is pretty rare in your area - 3 matches a year isn't enough to buy gear with the intent to shoot that sport, at least not your first gun and gear for it.

An 8-shot can be shot in USPSA, but if you shoot a 7th round just once you get bumped to the automatics division and compete against them.

All these issues make an 8-shot a bad choice for the OP's first round gun.

A 627 is nice for Steel Challenge if that's common near year.

A few ICORE matches plus a bunch of Steel matches and shooting for fun in USPSA could make the 627 viable.

The 625 works well for all three sports, though not great for Steel Challenge. It's your best option if you want to compete in all three. It's definitely the best revolve for IDPA and USPSA.

The 6-shot S&Ws still work very well for IDPA if slightly slower than a 625, and they will be fine for USPSA. Plus they're good for ICORE.

So the 625 is the best, a 686/66 is at a slight disadvantage to the 625, but still plenty good! The 627 is probably a big step behind.

4" is a must if you're going to shoot IDPA.

If you go with an out of production K-frame I can't recommend strongly enough one of the models with the adjustable rear sight. A pinned on front sight would be good, too.

 

[BlueOvalBandit]

Let me make a few corrections to 8 shooters and USPSA.

In revolver division: You can shoot a 627 but just be good at counting. 6 shots only, 7th shot is bump to open class. No optics or comps, bobbed hammers are ok, any holster you want. 9mm(0.355) is minimum diameter to make major PF.

In limited or L10: Bobbed hammers are ok, any holster you want, no optics or comps. Min. Diameter bullet for major .40. You may take all 8 shots without penalty.

In production: NO BOBBED HAMMERS or external modifications, No race holsters, you can ignore the behind the hipbone rule for ammo and place it anywhere you want. No Major PF, everything is minor. You can take all 8 shots without penalty. No optics or comps obviously.

Open: Anything goes virtually, I shoot my 627 with Deltapoint and comped here for fun.

 

[rcbsilva]

Revolver for IDPA AND USPSA?

I bought a SW 586 last November and added a Hi-viz green front sight, sent it to SW to do the Master Revolver Action Package and bought Jerry Miculek smooth grip and springs.

In IDPA there is no different scoring whether you use Major or Minor power factor, and recently IDPA lowered the revolver min power factor to 105!
So, a heavier N frame 357 with an underbarrel and 105 power factor shoots like a 22 (almost).
I use the Safariland comp III speadloaders and had them cut halfway (the ring that holds the bullets) and inserted a screw to have them release faster (there's a procedure in the internet showing how to do that)

The most training I have been doing is dry firing and reloading. I had a friend load 60 dummy rounds to load my 10 speadloaders and practice reloading, reloading, reloading. And then some more with a par value of 7 seconds for draw - shoot 6 rounds - reload and shoot 6 more.

USPSA - does differentiate between Major and Minor so almost every shooter (except me) shoot 625's with moon clips. And in USPSA you can have a 5" barrel on the 625, although a 4" 625 would be legal for IDPA also in ESR division.
Some friends said they would buy me a pizza while I was shooting my revolver...
I had to buy 38 special +P ammo 158gr because most found factory loads don't make 125 power factor required for USPSA Minor.

So,
A 625 4" will be good for both
To be specific:
A 586 (blue) or 686 SSR (steel) with some enhancements for IDPA (heavier 357's shooting 38 special 158gr 105 power factor - 700fps)
A 625 5" for USPSA with enhancements.