Quick Review, 4" Shield w/RDS.

[Doug M.]

Took my 4" Shield 2.0 w/RDS to the range yesterday to start testing and break-in. I will do a real/follow up report sometime soon, when I finish.

BLUF: 377 total rounds of mixed (Winchester 100 round box ball and a 50 round box of Black Hills) ball and carry ammo (69 rounds of BH 115 +p Barnes and 80 rounds of the similar Barnes load as they no longer sell components). The pistol had been a demo model in their shop and the RDS was already mounted; all I did was make sure the screws were tight. (A friend told me his came with thread locker of some kind on the screws; I presume so as I checked today and they had not backed off.) The RDS was ... if not spot on, close enough for my eyes and needs. I did a little bit of shooting for group and got a hole about the size of a quarter with 8 rounds (a couple of times) at 7 yards. Good thing as I had left the RDS adjustment stuff at home like an idiot after stripping, cleaning, and lubing as directed. I had sanded the right side of the grip for future carry (I'm left handed). I was not shooting for accuracy most of the time once I confirmed that the RDS was at least close.

I started with my 7 loaded mags (the 2 included, 1 each 7 and 8 round, plus the 5 more I bought; 2 8 round, 3 7). Most of the shooting I did was for function. Simple answer: No malfs. Not a single problem. I checked the sight today and it is still tight. I feel confident that right now I could load it with carry ammo and go forth; my holster and mag pouch from Dale Fricke should be here Monday. I won't yet, on principal. I have another 200 rounds of the Barnes ammo ready to go with me. I may go through my ammo and look for some other carry ammo, but I think most of the other stuff I have is the 127 grain Winchester +P+; a great round and fine in my Glocks, but I don't have much left and S&W opposes the use of such.

Things that were sub-optimal: I did not test the pistol with a loaded chamber and fully loaded mag until late in the session. I had done some stuff earlier in the day that did not favor a long shooting session, which did not even start until I had been up for 12 hours. I had a hard time getting the 8 round mags to seat under those circumstances; the 7s did not. Some of that might have been me. I was tired and maybe a little dehydrated.

Worse, my hand was sore. The factory checkering is just fine for 50 rounds. Sometime after 100, it was less fine. Toward then end, it was ... really unpleasant. I have now sanded it all down a good bit. I think it will be at least ok. With the narrower grip of the single stack magazine, it was not a comfortable combo. Not near as bad as a J frame, but not as pleasant as a full sized Glock. Not really a surprise, when one thinks about it. It's really simple physics; more felt recoil due to the smaller contact surface and lighter weight, compounded by the aggressive checkering. This a personal defense pistol, not a target or plinking gun, so to a great extent the compromises work out this way. I think the RDS is workable, and the smart trend for a defense or duty platform. For new shooters, it will be easy, as there is no transition from using irons (there is a difference in sight plane). For ... "more senior" shooters, heavily trained in the Gunsite model, the transition will be potentially unpleasant, but really worth it when one's eyes are less flexible than they were. I'm in this latter camp; just turned 60 and my eyes, which have always taken a lot of correction, have lost a lot of flexibility in the last 10 years. For a duty pistol, I think an M&P or Glock duty pistol with the RDS is a winner and worth the cost; from my understanding the latest generation RMR is the choice.

With so few rounds through it, I see no reason to clean and lube. A carry pistol that won't go 1000 or so rounds without cleaning is likely defective. I'll admit I did a very modest one patch wipe of the barrel and mag well, and rubbed a drop of lube on a patch on the outside of the barrel while it was locked back. I plan to go again later this week, once I figure out some other schedule issues, then clean the pistol and mags for real.

 

[B0308]

Thanks Doug, Good write up.

 

[CB3]

Thanks for sharing. Good observations on the checkering. I second your use of the 115 grn Barnes XPB bullet loaded by Black Hills. Top of the line defensive ammo.

Leave all your mags loaded for a couple of weeks. The springs relax a bit. Easier to load and insert in the gun.

A few questions:

What RDS is it? Dot size?
Co-witness with irons?
Not ported?
Can you compare the balance/feel of the new 4" model to the shorter barrel version?
Describe trigger—smoothness & weight of pull?

Thanks.

 

[Rastoff]

I'm clearly not keeping up with current events. I didn't even know there was a 4" Shield. Great write up.

I did a little bit of shooting for group and got a hole about the size of a quarter with 8 rounds (a couple of times) at 7 yards.

OK brother, I'm going to need some pics of that. I hear a lot of claims like this on the internet, but have never seen it at the range. This is some of the best shooting I've heard about in a while. A quarter is ssmaller than an inch. I've always likes your posts So, yeah, I believe you, but I still want pics.

Also, take a crack at this: Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet
You'll have no trouble with it.

 

[Doug M.]

Let's see ... in response.

The RDS is made by "Shield", ironically, an English company. Not sure which model it is. I have seen some critiques of it here, by another member who is likely a lot more serious about his transition to an RDS than I am. This is not a duty weapon carried openly, so some of the concerns he has will not apply to my use.

It is not ported, and I have never shot a standard Shield, so have no basis of comparison. I am not sure of co-witness as I was not interested in using the factory sights for a lot of reasons - mostly related to my eyes.

Trigger: It's not a target gun, but it was clean enough for my use. A friend who just got his and is pending the range trip has dry fired his and decided not to get an APEX kit as his duty pistols have had. I don't have a reset fetish or anything like it, and most of my firearms are of service nature, so as long as the trigger is not horrendous, I'm ok.

Rastoff: I did not take pictures and in reality was not considering the grouping much. This was just my first few shots while I tried the RDS and hoped like heck it was at least close. The outcome was not the shooter, but the sights. If one extends the math out, that's just better than a 4" group at 25, which is not great. I don't often shoot for group; my background was all LE in the Gunsite era (academy in '89). While there was a time when I could do pretty well, I was never patient enough to do such shooting on a regular basis, and now my eyes are not flexible enough due to age. (Hence, my interest in the RDS.)

I'm planning to take Thursday afternoon off and go to the range again, but it is still focused on function testing.

 

[snowman.45]

Your results mirror my own. I found the Shield 4" PC w/RDS to be accurate, reliable and durable (to this point). I've had no malfunctions or any kind and have tried 115 gr. FMJ of various brands, 124 gr. GDHP +P, Sig Sauer V-Crown 124 and 124 +P and some 124 gr. +P Golden Sabers I had laying around. This pistol is impressive enough that I'll likely buy the same gun in .45 ACP next. BTW, mine is the non-ported variant.

 

[Doug M.]

Brief update after 200 more rounds on Thursday. Still no malfs, except one clearly shooter induced (failed to properly seat magazine). Idid test that issue more, and as long as I did my part, now the mags seat fine with a loaded chamber.

The RDS seems to co-witness, or nearly so. I specifically looked for his, as I admittedly did not care much about that issue. It was a bit off to the right at the 25 (yards), but with a little assistance from the RSO on duty, got that addressed. I MAY have gotten the grips a little too smooth, but that remains to be seen. At least my (left) hand did not feel like I had done something stupid this time.

A friend who has bought but as far as I know not yet had a chance to test his was impressed enough during dry fire to not get an Apex duty/carry trigger kit for his, although all of his duty M&Ps have one. One of my client's FIs was interested in seeing it in the parking lot yesterday; he concurred and thought the price seemed right/low for what one gets and what I need.

When I took time to try for more precise shooting, I still got good results. I attribute that mostly to the RDS, not me. I had a PM from Rastoff discussing the precision question he had and typed out a great answer, then stupidly did not send it. Argh. I suppose I should do it over, to the extent I can.

As I have not yet done the cleaning and maintenance, I don't know for sure that the mounting screws are still tight, but I see no sign they are not. I can update that later.

A tangential lesson about another string here in which a woman commented about how her standard Shield was a bear to lock back due to the recoil spring: I do not know for sure that my theory about the need for such a stiff spring due to the short barrel is right, but I got to experience it for myself. There were a couple of women (probably 45-50- ish, so well younger than I) shooting a standard Shield next booth over. They were doing well, but had an awful time locking the slide back. (They used an empty mag each time. The difference was very clear when I tried it. I'm a LOT bigger and stronger than them, and the effort was noticeable. For most people, I would say that the slightly longer barrel is worth it. It might not be for those two as they were very small, likely at or near 5'.

For most people, especially if you are a bit oder and vision impaired, I think this is a good package. Since I carry across the country, the smaller mag and more concealable nature is a value for me. For those less worried about mag capacity restrictions, I'd bet that a 4" M&P compact with a good RDS is a heck of a platform, and for a duty weapon, the full size or compact w/RMR would be a winner. While chatting with the RSO, he mentioned that a friend of his, a long term LEO, had the same view.

 

[Doug M.]

Don't let lawyers do math. I actually shot 405 rounds (I think ) the first day (I was working from partial boxes to some extent, so had to count by using mag capacity, and got it all wrong). All the rest is valid.

Started the cleaning last night. The mags were relatively easy to strip and reassemble once I got used to the process. Normally I don't clean mags very often, but something I was shooting was DIRTY (knowledgeable sources told me probably the Winchester bulk ball) and I thought it prudent. I use SLIP products almost exclusively (and latex medical gloves to keep the worst of the crud off my hands), and just stripped and cleaned each mag in sequence. When I was done with all 7, I went back and reassembled them. The intervening time allowed for final drying and everything was good to go. There is an argument for using a patch damp with lube (SLIP EWL) and wiping things so they have the tiniest of lube on the spring, etc., but the manual said nothing about doing so and I gave the idea no more thought until now.

After beating up my hand the first day, I did sand the whole grip. I MAY have done too much. I shall see, and evaluate that as time passes. I have done the first steps of cleaning the pistol, too, and will do more. It too was filthy, but as noted above, with the exception of one shooter induced malf, not a single problem. Objectively, I am not a major cleaning fetishist, especially after training with Pat Rogers and seeing good quality ARs go tens of thousands of rounds with no cleaning and only lube.

I checked the RDS mounting screws; no sign of loosening. I don't foresee any issues in the future if 600+ rounds in a week, most fired as fast as I could pull the trigger, did not cause a problem. I will likely finish cleaning later today, and test out the "leather" (actually Kydex from Dale Fricke Holsters, a source suggested to me by Gary Roberts a few years ago, and which I have used with success). This is likely to be my primary belt gun for the future.