Qutesy 44 Family infographic

[Nemo288]

I whipped together to show the very beginnings of my latest project: the 44 Alaskan.
This is simply the 450 Alaskan necked down to 44.
I have not been able to find any references to this wildcat, but I am having a hard time believing I am the first one to think of this.
If anyone knows anything about this cartridge please let me know.
The only brass extant is the Qual-Cart 450 Ak and it's not world class quality but will be easier to form than the assuredly much better Starline 50 Ak. brass.
The idea is to simulate the ballistics of the 450-400 NE.
This old (and still somewhat popular) cartridge ran a 400 grain bullet to 2150 fps or a 300 to 2500 fps.
The 44 Alaskan is an inch shorter than the 450-400 3" and operates at lever action pressure.
The parent case is the 348 Winchester which is also available.
After mocking up the first dummy, I realize I could probably paper patch and shoot the 44's in a 450 Alaskan rifle if the bore size was anywhere close.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I have Data from Fred Barnes' old company in the early 80's listing an "Original" bullet .430-300 grain bullet with 48.0 of IMR 3031 @ 2100 fps.and 42.0 grains of IMR 4198 @ 2100 fps. These bullets had a very thin soft copper jacket .032" thick, at 44 mag velocities they were fine in a Lever gun, but who knows. With the added volume, I'm sure you can make the 2500 fps. mark in a 22" lever gun, but stay away from "Micro-Groove" barrels.

BTW, the Barnes #4 manual, only lists the 450/400 N.E. 3' at 2083 fps with a 25" barrel on their 400 gr BND SLD bullet.

Ivan

 

[Nevada Ed]

Now there is a load that will go threw a LOT of water jugs !!

Very interesting load.
If you ever get er done...........
it would be nice to see some data and targets from that new wildcat loading.


Many, many years ago I had the luck to shoot and load for the .256 Newton.

Good luck.

 

[Nemo288]

Thanks for the information Ivan!
I shoot MG barrels in both my current 444s but the new barrels will be whatever rifling the custom barrel makers use.
Every one seems to be a little different.
My Pac-Nor 445 has rifling that could be described as being half way between micro-groove and the old S&W broached rifling.
I don't know a lot about rifles actually. Been a handgun and shotgun guy most of my life.
I also don't know whether my new 444 barrel will be from Pac-Nor or Douglas.
None of these are or will be micro-grooved.

Gary Reeder has an almost identical round he calls the 440 GNR.
GNR Wildcat Cartridges
Funny, the YouToob video shows him shooting this with a Hornady 265FP at 2200 fps which is easily obtained with factory 444 ammo.
The 14" barrel might account for some of the "wimpyness".
I wanted to make the neck a little longer but his take it or leave it attitude left me cold.
He also claimed that not wanting to run a lubed bullet down into the powder was an old wives tale.
I decided JDJ would be more open minded although he has never seen the Qual-Cart brass before.
I never had either.
Specifying the chamber (and die) reamer will be the most challenging part as I have never done anything like that and you can't screw it up.
Lotta measuring and thinking to do.
'Nother pot of coffee is on the stove..
Have a cup!

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

My friends that have custom reamers made all use "Pacific", They claim that he has reasonably fast turn around time and can help you fill in the blanks. I think a cartridge drawing and an idea of how long of lead (depends on bullet length you plan on using or that is maximum weight to be used) would be the best place to start.

GNR has a reputation for highest quality work and low opinions for anything not his Idea! (the same holds for J.D.Jones)

I would think you'll have a hard time getting that big of rim to work in a Marlin. Did Reader's 440GNR use a full sized 348/ 50-70 rim, or did he trim in down? If you need to stay full sized, I think you'll need to go to a Winchester/Browning 1886 design. I think case length has the same issues. The 86/71 actions took cases as big and long as 50-110 Express! One of the Browning 71 repos would be the answer to alot of unforeseen problems and questions. Keep the old barrel and if the project doesn't work out, put it back on and you still got a great gun!

All of my Pac-nor and Douglas barrels are in 6 and 6.5 mm diameters, so I has nothing to recommend. But my best friend likes Douglas "Premium" barrels on his 50 caliber muzzle loaders. (They shoot extremely well, in most people's hands except mine. Being right handed, I don't shoot left handed flint locks well!)

I look forward to updates on your project. Ivan

 

[Nemo288]

Reeder's and my project are both for the T/C Encore which uses a 1" barrel.
I tend to think along the lines of leaving it 1" the whole way to maximize the weight.
I agree about the lever rifle.
The Alaskan cartridges mainly use the Model 71 action.
If I get that far and have any money left over, I'll go that way.
Quicky pic of my Encore so far:
The (screw off) brake doesn't match any more because I sent the barrel back to have the rear sight assembly mounted more firmly and they cleaned it.
I had the forearm cut off to allow enough space to mount a Magnetospeed sensor.
The whole thing weighs 5 pound 6 ounces and I calculate it comes back at me around 16 fps under recoil.
For some reason I can take more recoil with a handgun than I can with a rifle.
Experience and familiarity might be factors; I don't shoot rifles a lot.
I can only take about 14 fps recoil in a rifle.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I have a super 14 Contender barrel in 44 mag. I had it mag-na-ported. and shot those Barns 44 300 grain bullets over 26.6 of WW 296. I had been using S&W brand 44 mag ammo and shooting cinder blocks. The S&W factory 240 grain ammo would smash a block into fist sized pieces and blow them in a shower about 40 yards in diameter. The first shot with the barns pill hit the end of the block and left a 3" hole in it. I believed I had just blew a hole in it length wise, however when I walked up to the block, the end partition was standing there all by itself! the remainder of the block had turned to vapor!!! not a speck of gravel left! Shooting that load from that gun was very painful, but not in my hand or arm, In the middle of my back, from the full body push back! I also have a 375 Winchester 12" Hunter barrel. It has a recoil reducer similar to your Encore, and is quite pleasant to shoot; in daylight only! at dusk the fire ball at the end of your arm is 4' or bigger in diameter and very blinding. Ivan