44/40 light load data required.

[Kiwi cop]

I am currently reloading my 44/40 CAS revolver loads with 5.5 gn Tightgroup for a published velocity from a 20" barrel of something like 800 fps.

I am looking for a lighter load, something around 450 fps from 5 1/2" barrels to meet CAS rules of a minimum 400 fps. Unfortunately all load data I have checked gives minimum velocities around what I am loading for now.

Does anyone have any light load data for the 44/40 cartridge?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

You can't tell what velocities you will generate front reading the load data. Most of the time you won't be where they are. If you're actually getting 800 fps from a 20" barrel it will be considerably less from a 5.5" barrel. Before you believe that I would send some over the chrono before you change your load. I'm sure it would be much easier to have a common load for your rifle and handguns.

You didn't list the bullet weight. Hodgdon lists a starting charge of 5.0gr of Titegroup with a 200gr Cast Bullet so you can go lighter.

 

[Warren Sear]

The powder you want to use for very low powered ammo is Trail Boss. Use lead bullets only (no jacketed).

My minimum load for my Uberti SAA with 4-3/4" barrel is a 205 grain bullet (cast from a Lyman #427098 mold) powered by 5.6 grains of Trail Boss. This gives 695 fps over my chronograph. That is all the slower I want to go.

You can use this as a starting point and go lower, but be extremely careful and on the lookout for a stuck bullet. If this occurs, STOP IMMEDIATELY!!! You must increase the powder charge. It is not dangerous to do this as long as you are careful and watch closely for a stuck bullet. Notice I did not use the ambiguous, and therefore meaningless, term "squib".

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

From the 1996 Hodgdon "Cowboy Action Data" Booklet

200grain Lead RNFP___No Barrel Length Listed
_____________.427 Bullet________________
Universal Clays 6.6 gr 722 fps -7.3 gr 777 fps
HP38/ww231....5.5 gr 711 fps -6.5 gr 820 fps
Titegroup.........5.0 gr 758 fps -6.2 gr 901 fps
Clays...............4.2 gr 648 fps -5.0 gr 765 fps

My personal load was 4.4 Clays with a 205 cast RNFP, worked well in my Ruger Vaqueros and Marlin 1894 Cowboy. I never ran it across a chronograph, sorry but a friend said this was about 700 fps from handguns.

Clays isn't position sensitive, which makes it a good powder for light/reduced loads.

Ivan

 

[DWalt]

One needs to be careful with very light loads in a revolver, lest a bullet gets stuck in the barrel. A following shot could bulge the barrel. I probably wouldn't want to load for a MV any lower than around 600 ft/sec, just for safety. You should really use a chronograph if you wish to work up such light loads. I'd personally use fast powders like AA#2, 700-X, Bullseye, or Clays.

 

[Kiwi cop]

Thanks for the info.

I realised about an hour after my OP that I should have mentioned I was using 200 gn lead RNFP projectiles.

Yes, I have a chrono. And no, I have not yet run my current loads across it to see what velocity I am currently getting. That has been put on my "to do" shooting list right after rechecking the sights on my Springfield 1911 A 1 .45 at ranges beyond 20 meters following installation of a DPM recoil system (point of impact was about 8" lower at 15 meters after installation. Why? I'm not sure but hoping that it is the 'softer" less obvious recoil I am now getting) and function testing/resighting after making the same modification to my Kimber Stainless Target II 9mm this week (I have an IPSC comp at he end of January I'll be using the Kimber for).

I probably should also have included the reason for my original enquiry. I am seriously looking at Gunfighter category for my CAS shooting where I will need to shoot with both revolvers in hand and only one handed. And while it is "gamesmanship", which I am not too fond of, I feel a reduced load will offer better accuracy and speed than my usual load which I will keep for my Rossi Puma '92 replica.

The 5 gn Tightgroup will be my first trial followed probably by Trail Boss.

 

[BigMuddy]

Just FYI...but I shot GF for several years in CAS. I found that loads with a bit of recoil worked better for me. The recoil raised the guns to allow cocking one hand to work faster. Cocking one while firing the other. I shot 38-40's with 5.0 grains of TG. That load was really to keep pressure low for my original Winchester '73.

I have not been real active in CAS lately. They have a minimum velocity of 400 fps now??????? Jeeez I bet my Daisy BB gun would meet that minimum. (Part of the reason I'm not real active anymore)

Dan

 

[rwsmith]

^^^ What Warren and the other said......

Titegroup,Bullseye and Acc #2 are all used for light target loads. If you are CAREFUL and test the load to be sure tha you aren't close to sticking a bullet in the barrel, you can go below book data. Light powder charges do not 'detonate' as has been said, but sticking a bullet in the barrel will cause a 'kaboom' on the next shot which is probably where the 'detonation' thing came from. Blaming the powder instead of bad loading practice, which is typical of human nature.

A powder that has done well for me in light semi pistol loads with heavy bullets has been Acc #7. I tried this on the recommendation of another forum member and it did VERY well. They physics might be a little different with a pistol spring vs a revolver gap, but no doubt it makes for really soft shooting loads.

 

[Kiwi cop]

Just FYI...but I shot GF for several years in CAS. I found that loads with a bit of recoil worked better for me. The recoil raised the guns to allow cocking one hand to work faster. Cocking one while firing the other. I shot 38-40's with 5.0 grains of TG. That load was really to keep pressure low for my original Winchester '73.

I have not been real active in CAS lately. They have a minimum velocity of 400 fps now??????? Jeeez I bet my Daisy BB gun would meet that minimum. (Part of the reason I'm not real active anymore)

Dan

400 fps minimum velocity with a PF of 60. That makes my Service Match .38 Special and .45 ACP 130 PF look very powerful.

Actually i am not too sure that cocking on recoil will be too much effected for me! My speeds will never be world champion levels. I am just looking for a little more controllability with the loads.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I never had enough control of my left hand to try GF class. Every now and then they would have scenario set up for GF to aim at 2 targets and shoot them alternately, often 10 shots in 2.5 to 3 seconds! (a marvel to watch someone good at it!)

I sold off my 44-40 set of guns and the ammo (2 Stainless 4" Vaqueros and a tricked out Marlin Cowboy) But still have a set of 357 SAA's, a set of 44 Russians w/ a 1873 in 44 Special, and 3 sets of 45 Colt (2 pair Vaqueros and a mismatched pair of SAA's). When all the sons shoot a 3 day match with me, between practice and the matches, we'll use most of 5000 rounds! It is almost as hard to have enough leather for everybody as it is guns! I bought the 357 set for my wife and found a very nice used custom holster rig for her too, with a nice ladies trap SxS in 20 gauge. #2 son decided that would be the set he uses, since they have the same basic build.

The guys were happy with SxS shotguns until I showed them how to use a 97! They wanted to us mine, but I insisted my set of guns were for me only, if they wanted one -GO BUY ONE! But they all prefer to borrow the SxS's and use my ammo. It usually takes me a month to reload everything they empty, but I really wouldn't have it any other way!

Ivan

 

[veeman]

I use 4.5 grs of Trail Boss for my cas loads, works great in my 5.5" Remington 1875's and uberti 73, 66, and Rossi 92.

 

[fredj338]

I peronnally would go that low, squibs & stuck bullets suck, especially ina rifle. I used to run 5gr of red dot under a 205gr. If I remember about 700fps. I shot duelist with a 45colt mostly. I ended up abandoning the 44/40, brass & reloading just too finicky. A 200gr bullet at 700fps is pretty soft shooting.

 

[Beemer-mark]

Does SASS allow BB guns??I mean what is the point? A 200 gn bullet from a lever action at 1500 fps has no recoil.