R U swaging bullets during seating and going to Lyman M die? .455 Webley

[oddshooter]

You are one lucky sucker if you get an M die to work out of the box with the one stem (plug) included. I determine the diameter of my bullets for each firearm and then get the stem size ordered that I need. I suggest planning on special ordering from the manufacturer.

I use the expander plug (M die) when the brass is swaging down my bullet as I try to seat it in tight brass. I select the diameter of my bullets carefully and don't want the seating to change that.

So if you still have a problem after using the M die, you can change the "stem" of the expander plug by emailing the manufacturer and requesting a different size stem. I don't believe Lyman does that for their M die, but I know for certain that RCBS does.

Just talked to Lyman about the stem for the .45 ACP "M" die being too small for what I was doing. I need my cast bullet to stay .454 not .450
Lyman suggested and I ordered the 45-70 M die stem which is .456 stem/plug . So if after spring back takes the brass to .455, I may still need to polish a .001 off the stem to match my bullet size of .454.


You have to answer the question yourself, because we can't see what's happening. Pull a few bullets and check their diameter for swaging down the diameter. If your bullets are too small after pulling them and measuring, you need a larger stem for the expander.


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[bigedp51]

Bullet grip depends on bullet type and diameter, the .223 expander below has .003 bullet grip for jacketed bullets.

 

[Enigma]

I've had my machinist buddy turn out a few 'M' plugs in custom diameters for me over the years. C-H at least used to offer this service, and NOE Bullet Molds makes a wide variety of different sized expander plugs, used with the Lee Universal Expander Die: Expanders, NOE Bullet Moulds

 

[6string]

Very useful, and important, points to know. Thanks!

Another approach to possibly consider is the resizing die.
Carbide sizing dies are a wonderful convenience, but are not without flaws. The compromise manufacturers face is to decide on a sizing diameter that takes into consideration the taper in "straight walled" cartridge cases. All too often, they choose a diameter that's too small, probably as a default assumption that most people use jacketed bullets, and also to ensure reliable chambering.
Redding addresses this with their double ring carbide dies.
Another direction is to use the older style steel sizing dies. Yeah, you gotta lube cases, but they tend to be sized to better match the full length of the chamber. And, you can tweak how much you screw them in to vary the final diameter of the sized cases.

This won't fix an incorrect expander die plug, but at least makes it a bit less of a critical factor. It also alleviates problems involving deep seated heavy bullet bases getting as squeezed, should they get near the point where the brass case walls begin to thicken. Plus, the less you have to work the brass, the longer your case life.

Jim

 

[fredj338]

In pistols, I just dont have the issue with bullets being sized in the case during seating. I like M style expanders for the straight line seating & cleaner bullet bases.

 

[oddshooter]

Great responses, folks.
good suggestions all around !

bigedp,
where did you get that chart. EXCELLENT !
may I assume that designated lettering is specific to one manufacturer? If so, who is it? Someone got their act together.

I don't use M dies unless I have an odd, over-sized bullet. But when you get odd chamber exit holes and large groove diameters, you don't have much choice if you want to keep leading down.


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[stavey]

Check out the double alpha powder funnel for the Dillon powder drop. Works great I did polish it like a mirror . Bullet seats perfectly centered without flaring the life out of your brass. I then seat with a Redding comp. die. No crimp / Done

 

[oddshooter]

OP here.

First, the issue.
I have an old HE .455 Webley that was countersunk to allow 45 colt rounds to load without binding the cylinder. The 45 colt brass has a much thicker rim than the old .455 Webley and the rim would stop even the cylinder from closing with standard 45 Colt. Countersunk also means you can continue to shot .455 Webley because the rim is wider than the 45 colt and so does not enter countersunk.
You don't even need the speed loaders with this arrangement. The back of the cylinder was not cut down.

My bullets are sized .454 to fit in my old .455 HE Webley (short case)

I got the new stem and end plug .456 from Lyman and the diameter is about the right size now. Problem is the new stem is too short in length.

First issue was that the stem was for a 45-70 (long case) and not .455 (short case). The new plug is the correct diameter now, but the stem is too short. My M die for the .45 schofield is correct length, but the plug is too small.

So I unscrewed the new .456 plug from the end of the new 45-70 stem and swapped it with the plug from the old .455 stem.
It now produces the little M nest correctly sized for my 10 bhn .454 bullets.
The bullets are soft where they will obturate in the HE .455 Webley barrel.

This is a lot of effort to get an old .455 Webley with large cyllinder exits and smaller bore to shoot safely and without leading. My next issue is how to stop the occasional bulged cases, caused during expanding. I'm wondering how to soften my brass cases to get them to expand a little easier without bulging.

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