Range session with an octet of pre-war Target S&Ws

Joined
Feb 20, 2009
Messages
2,986
Reaction score
7,585
Location
Tulsa, OK area
Last week I went to the range with a batch of .32s. This time it's all pre-war target guns. I'm hoping to establish a trend of going shooting a little more often. All guns were shot standing two-handed, at a distance of 60 feet. The target has a one-inch grid and the center of the black diamond was the aim point. For most of these guns it's the first time I've fired them. The .22s were shot with CCI Standard Velocity ammo.


Pre-war target guns

2daknx2.jpg



Pre-war target guns with targets

21ps.jpg



First up is a single action Model 3 break-top centerfire converted by persons unknown to a single shot .22. There is information about its acquisition in this thread: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-antiques/217300-tulsa-gun-show-haul-nov-2011-a.html
Aside from the serial number on the butt the gun is devoid of markings. With the small hole in the barrel it has a pleasing heft, although the grips are a touch small for such a weighty gun. The sights are very nice with a not-too-thin front blade and deep notch rear. Chambering appears similar to a so-called Olympic chamber, with the nose of the bullet being forced into the leade of the rifling when closing the gun. Very nice trigger and I liked the upswept hammer for solid purchase when cocking.


Model No. 3 .22 conversion

4v06pt.jpg



The next gun is a 3rd Model Single Shot with Olympic chamber. After shooting the previous gun, this one felt quite thin in all respects. The regular hammer with its fine checkering was much less secure to cock than the previous gun. I had shot it in the past, but not with this ammo.


3rd Model Single Shot

2hz5o4w.jpg



This little .22/32 is the Heavy Frame Target (HFT), so-called only because it is heavy in comparison to the tiny M-frame Ladysmith that preceded it. (Sadly I do not have a target Ladysmith – yet.) This particular gun has a dangerously light trigger in that the hammer can be pushed off when cocked single action. The locking bolt spring is also weak, the cylinder can be turned by hand. Shoots pretty well though in spite of all that. It has a conventional square butt, rather than the Bekeart style grip.


.22/32 Heavy Frame Target

2agn2g2.jpg



After the dainty HFT, the .22 Outdoorsman feels more like a manly man's gun, with manly heft and a manly grip. This one has a lanyard swivel added and I believe has been refinished. Pretty nice though.


Outdoorsman .22

3013j2v.jpg



If the Outdoorsman feels manly, this 1917 converted to .22 feels like a fat ******* (illegitimate child). I've posted before about it in this thread: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...47-chambered-22-long-rifle.html#post136776722 It doesn't so much shoot bullets as it does fling them in the general direction of the target, sometimes sideways. Somebody put a lot of time and effort into building a target .22 that don't shoot.


1917/.22 conversion

35mjm21.jpg



I've already posted a target for this gun in a previous thread, but I wanted to take it out again for this session for comparison. I dropped the low shot at the top of the diamond so consider the upper five shots the group. http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-hand-ejectors-1896-1961/326851-shot-batch-32-guns-other-day.html


.32 Target


e8rbf7.jpg

.

After buying the .32 Target at the gun show I felt like I should have an M&P Target .38 as well, and hied off to Gunbroker. The ammo is a handload that I had lying around with 125 grain bullets, don't offhand recall the powder charge. Compared to the .22s and .32 it has a nice sharp crack. The low positioning of the group indicates that I probably should be shooting wadcutter target ammo. Note that the single oblong hole was made by four shots, touching. A fluke of course.


M&P target .38

2yn33i0.jpg




Last but certainly not least is a 2nd Model Hand Ejector .44 Special, another GB acquisition. http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...-couple-2nd-model-he-44s-target-standard.html
Nice visible sights, clean trigger. However here the problem of factory S&W grips rears its ugly head, with the skinny-at-the-top service grips too thin for a secure grip when firing ammo with appreciable recoil. The ammo is a 240 gr round nose flap point (if that isn't an oxymoron) on top of 5.2 gr of Trail Boss. Haven't chrono'd the load so not sure what its velocity is, but it should be pretty standard. I should've put on these grips, and will next time: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-hand-ejectors-1896-1961/310836-who-made-these-grips.html


2nd Model Hand Ejector .44

mtt7qv.jpg



I stuck with the standard velocity .22 ammo in deference to the .22/32 and old single shots, but knew that the Outdoorsman could handle modern high speed ammo. I tried it out with some CCI Blazer and CCI Mini-Mags. Looks like it prefers the zippier stuff.


Outdoorsman .22 with Blazers and Mini-Mags

34rdr9j.jpg



I also tried the 1917/.22 conversion with the Blazers and Mini-Mags but it was wasted ammo. The Blazers spanned the entire width of the target and half the Mini-Mags went through the target sideways. After two shots of the Mini-Mags it developed a hitch in its gitalong, and I couldn't cock it with the hammer alone – I had to forcefully turn the cylinder at the same time. That the checkering on the hammer was almost completely worn off didn't help matters any. Not a favorite.


1917/.22 conversion with Blazers and Mini-Mags

350ntjs.jpg
 
Last edited:
Register to hide this ad
Hey Tom,
Really appreciate your tests and posting actual targets at a give distance more than a few feet! Great guns, great variety and real targets!

Good comments about weight and handling characteristics, as we all know these vary tremendously but most old guns are just hard to shoot!
I switch to Brown/Roper, Sanderson or at least a T-tyler for any sort of target shooting.
Thanks for doing and posting,
Steve
 
Fills my heart with joy to see that there are others that know what these fine firearms were made for and aren't afraid to put them to it.
 
^ Couldn't have said it any better! Nice post, and honestly, nice to see them out for some fresh air doing what they were designed to do.
 
Hello Tom
Nice comparison of target result's you show there of your Target guns. Earlier this spring I decided to put two of my Early K-22's to the test. One being my 1936 Outdoorsman K-22 the other being my 1947 early Post War Transitional K-22. The results were almost the same when shooting these guns S&W was spot on to be bragging about their fine accuracy as seen in an actual Magazine add that is in the picture from The American Rifleman Magazine dated 1936. I used CCI lead bullet target velocity ammo to test the pair below is the results. These gun's are able to shoot Far More accurate than I am able to hold them on Target. The Target's shown were fired at the 25 Yard line off hand by me with both gun's shown. Regards, Hammerdown







S_W_1936_Outdoorsman_K-22_and_1947_K-22_004.jpg

S_W_1936_Outdoorsman_K-22_and_1947_K-22_003.jpg


S_W_1936_Outdoorsman_K-22_and_1947_K-22_008.jpg


S_W_1936_Outdoorsman_K-22_and_1947_K-22_009.jpg




The Late Pre-War and Early Post-War K-22 Twins....




S_W_1936_Outdoorsman_K-22_and_1947_K-22_006.jpg


S_W_1936_Outdoorsman_K-22_and_1947_K-22_005.jpg


S_W_1936_Outdoorsman_K-22_and_1947_K-22_007.jpg



S_W_1936_Outdoorsman_K-22_and_1947_K-22_011.jpg


S_W_1936_Outdoorsman_K-22_and_1947_K-22_010.jpg
 
Hello Tom
Nice comparison of target result's you show there of your Target guns. Earlier this spring I decided to put two of my Early K-22's to the test. One being my 1936 Outdoorsman K-22 the other being my 1947 early Post War Transitional K-22. The results were almost the same when shooting these guns S&W was spot on to be bragging about their fine accuracy as seen in an actual Magazine add that is in the picture from The American Rifleman Magazine dated 1936. I used CCI lead bullet target velocity ammo to test the pair below is the results. These gun's are able to shoot Far More accurate than I am able to hold them on Target. The Target's shown were fired at the 25 Yard line off hand by me with both gun's shown. Regards, Hammerdown


Beautiful guns Hammerdown, and your offhand shooting is a far sight better than mine. I've been wondering if I should start shooting from the bench to get a better idea of what these guns can actually do, rather than depending on my wobbly upright stance....
 
Good post and nice shooting. Tom, you really know how to spend an afternoon havin fun. Does the .22 outdoorsman have a Sheard front sight and U rear notch? Hammerdown, nice shooting. Tom, what's next? Can't wait. Larry
 
Good post and nice shooting. Tom, you really know how to spend an afternoon havin fun. Does the .22 outdoorsman have a Sheard front sight and U rear notch? Hammerdown, nice shooting. Tom, what's next? Can't wait. Larry

I'm not positive on how to differentiate between a Sheard and a Paine front sight, but I think the Outdoorsman has a Paine front sight, as does the .22/32. There is no brass bead on either, and they both have a rather concave profile front and back. I think a Sheard has a convex profile. Can someone tell me if that's right?

*edit* By the way, both the Outdoorsman and .22/32 have a small U notch rear sight to mate with the bead on the front sight.
 
Last edited:
I'm not positive on how to differentiate between a Sheard and a Paine front sight, but I think the Outdoorsman has a Paine front sight, as does the .22/32. There is no brass bead on either, and they both have a rather concave profile front and back. I think a Sheard has a convex profile. Can someone tell me if that's right?

Hello Tom
Sight blade options were Multiple on the Pre-War S&W's. We Normally saw a Call bead sight on most of the K-22's as a standard option sight blade as my 1936 has and mine has the Brilliant silver bead on it made of stainless steel. The early K-22 Outdoorsman's often came with the Gold Bead call sight on them, which was dropped in 1932-1933 time span for the Brilliant silver stainless steel bead sight. They did offer other sight option's as the Paine & Sheard sight blades I have a Pain bead sight on my single shot Target gun dating 1904 which is a Wafer thin lower blade that support's the round Paine bead gold sight on top. I am Not certain about The Sheard bead sight's I don't have any. I hope this helps, Hammerdown
 
Hammerdown, that is some mighty fine 25 yard shooting. That's about what I do at 7 yards. I need some lessons from you!
 
Hello Guy's
I appreciate & am Humbled by your kind words. I practice a lot, and the best book to improve my hand Gun shooting skill's that I have Read is a book Entitled "Experiment's of a handgunner" By author Walter Roper dated 1948. I learned a lot and applied much of it to my off hand shooting skils, and saw my score slowly rise with Patients and Lot's of practice. I have been Known on occasion, when the stars line up right and I am having a good shooting day, to Take my target shooting skills to the 100 Yard line distance for those that feel a .22 Caliber revolver is worthless on Long Range shots, it makes Believer's out of them leaving no doubt.:rolleyes: I did so one day about four years ago in front of Five of my Range safety officer companions that were Talking smack to me for adoring the .22 W.M.R, round. One even remarked that it was worthless in a hand gun as the barrel's were not long enough for the Powder to burn or for the velocity to be what it could out of a rifle. I was a Little Annoyed with his comment to the other's that were there and I saw that as a challenge , so I said well, let's see if your comment is supporting about this round & I walked down to the 100 yard line and stapled up a Regulation B-27 Man sized Target. I returned & took my 4 screw 4" Barrel model 48 out of my Range bag, Loaded her up with CCI-Maxi Mag ammo and stood off hand and fired 6-shots at the 100 Yard line.





I knew I would certainly was going to be under the Microscope on this target shooting by these guy's so I really concentrated hard on my Breathing Technique, stock grip hold, and smooth single action Trigger tip of my index finger let off when shooting the six rounds, as I was in no hurry here to miss the Kill zone area of the target so I was intent on getting some positive results and Hoped for the best. Now at that distance the Partidge sight looks very big compared to a full man sized B-27 Target, but I held dead on the Top of the Neck area region keeping the sight blade dead center of that area of the target, as I eased off the six shot's and below is the result's of which all but one is in the chest or Kill Zone area as shown and the One lone flier is just out of the black area as shown to the right side of the Target area, just cutting the edge of the black into white area. As soon as I was done shooting, I sent the annoying Mouthy one, that had so much to say about this round being worthless out of any hand gun down to bring back the target, and I noticed that he seemed to not be in a big hurry on the way back to us & when it was brought back to the shooting bench , and laid out for the other Four Range safety officer's to see it there was a Sudden dead silence over four guys except one of them who had shot with me before Plenty of times that said, as he smiled I knew he was going to do that I have seen him do it many times in the past, when shooting with him on the past, so Now you guy's have something to work towards to better your own hand gun scores, as it can be done as he has shown us here from this distance with Practice. They asked me then to show them how to get those results and I worked Intently with each one of them until they too were getting good result's out to 100 Yards. A .22 caliber weapon is best to start out with as it has no noticeable recoil at least to me :o Here is that B-27 Target that silenced them that day and my Vintage Model 48 .22 W.M.R. Regards, Hammerdown




B-27_shot_with_22_Mag_1.jpg


DSCF1221.JPG



B-27_Shot_with_.jpg


In shooting target's with a Hand gun am Not Limited to Small Bore revolver's as I like my S&W Pre-25 chambered in .45 Auto caliber. Here it is with a Hand-load that I worked up for it to Hunt Deer with. I shot this at the 25 Yard line as well and the target was shot with Six rounds of ammo, the Group result could be covered with a Quarter when I was done & I was so pleased with the Hand load results that have kept it as my pet staple load for this gun, Cheers and Good Shooting.;) any of the Picture's can be enlarged by simply clicking on them.


S_W_45_Target_revolver_0041.jpg
 
Last edited:
Tom, Great day at the range, and fine shooting. I don't have many ( any?) safe queens and enjoy shooting my guns on a regular, if not frequent, basis. I appreciate your efforts to compare the different models - and also this portion of your collection. Thanks!

Hammerdown, All I can say is that the "Force" must be with you. Amazing shooting, .. far beyond my eyes and steadiness. (beautiful guns, too!)

Jerry
 
The original post is a fine example of letting the guns almost speak for themselves. Quite an array of target revolvers. Many will agree that shooting was indeed their dedicated business and, with some TLC, they can still hold forth. Many Thanks for the seminar!

Regards,

Dyson
 
Back
Top