Range Time With My Old LCP

I put a couple of boxes through my old style LCP today so my hand is a bit sore. It still shoots all manner of FMJ & self defense rounds absent a single hiccup, and is accurate out to 10 yards shooting one hand, two hands & weak hand. I sold my LCP Max to a friend b/c I found myself still carrying the old style b/c it’s thinner & lighter in a pocket holster, and I’m a bit lazy when it comes to carrying anything else. I’ve owned this mouse gun about ten years, 400 + rounds of FMJ & HP and never a malfunction of any kind. Other brands were finicky, not good in a self defense tool, so I consider myself lucky.
Target photos would be appreciated. I always wonder if I am shooting well enough, or like other similar shooters with similar weapons, so your target is useful data for me. How about the score at that range?

I am not trying to be better than anybody except the bad guy I need to stop. Knowhatimean?

Kind Regards Always Old Cop and Everyone,
BrianD
 
I have one of the Original LCP's Talo Edition with Hard Chromed Slide (Looks almost like Stainless) Had always been super relaiable FMJ or Hydra Shock's,Don't carry it much any more it was replaced as far as daily carry by a Glock 42
I am new to the Glock 42. Can you relate your everything about yours? I am able to group the Federal Hydra-Shok Low Recoil rounds in a 4 inch circle at 7+ yards.

I was influenced by a YouTube video where three women were asked to shoot and compare 4 popular 380acp pistols including the Glock 42, the Ruger LCP, the Smith Bodyguard, and the Colt Mustang XSP. [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7nWBMIeIXI[/ame]

Kind Regards!
BrianD
 
Target photos would be appreciated. I always wonder if I am shooting well enough, or like other similar shooters with similar weapons, so your target is useful data for me. How about the score at that range?

I am not trying to be better than anybody except the bad guy I need to stop. Knowhatimean?

Kind Regards Always Old Cop and Everyone,
BrianD

I do know what you mean but posting pics is a bit beyond my skill level. Besides, those targets went into the trash as I left the range. Apologies . . . .
 
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I am new to the Glock 42. Can you relate your everything about yours? I am able to group the Federal Hydra-Shok Low Recoil rounds in a 4 inch circle at 7+ yards.

I can manage similar groups with a Sig P238, and maybe a touch better Sig P250 subcompact in 380 and the S&W EZ380.
 
Target photos would be appreciated. I always wonder if I am shooting well enough, or like other similar shooters with similar weapons, so your target is useful data for me. How about the score at that range?

I am not trying to be better than anybody except the bad guy I need to stop. Knowhatimean?

Kind Regards Always Old Cop and Everyone,
BrianD
While I understand and appreciate your question, and why you're asking it, isn't it kind of irrelevant?

What HE can do with HIS gun really has no direct bearing or influence on what YOU can do with YOUR gun - does it?

I would think posting photos of YOUR targets would be more beneficial and instructive. That would allow the more accomplished shooters/instructors on the forum to offer advice on how you can improve your accuracy.

Just my thoughts and perspective on your question. No offense intended.
 
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Sorry - a wee bit off topic - did you have any reliability problems with the LCP Max? I’ve been almost exclusively carrying my LCP2 this year but the Max looks tempting. I’ve had zero issues with the LCP2. Ref ranges - I sure miss Elite SS although I assume you can shoot there as a Retired LEO …
 
I sold my LCPMax that I had purchased new. Thought I needed a 9mm so I got a Glock 43. I got the LCP Max back on a trade a couple of weeks ago. Just really like having a small pocket pistol.
 
Lcp

I had the first lcp 10 yrs, over 1k rounds never a jam.
Have the max now my daily carry, never a jam.
YMMV
 
I’ve had an LCP, LCP2, and LCP Max. The LCP became my wife’s pistol. She prefers it to the other two. If you like the original, the LCP Custom is basically an LCP with improved sights and trigger.
 
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While I understand and appreciate your question, and why you're asking it, isn't it kind of irrelevant?

What HE can do with HIS gun really has no direct bearing or influence on what YOU can do with YOUR gun - does it?

I would think posting photos of YOUR targets would be more beneficial and instructive. That would allow the more accomplished shooters/instructors on the forum to offer advice on how you can improve your accuracy.

Just my thoughts and perspective on your question. No offense intended.
Excellent response Thanks!
I watched a YouTuber, Stav, her channel is "She Equips Herself". She was shooting a Glock 42 at 10 yards and closer and the target was an 8 inch circle on a human silhouette. After fifty rounds the circle was completely peppered up and there were four or five wild ones a couple not even on the silhouette. I have no interest in those fliers as they are irrelevant mistakes, but the 8" group however left me wondering. The pistol is capable of better, but she was not unhappy at all.

There are YouTubes featuring people shooting the handguns that they are reviewing and they never show the targets. Scootch is one like that. He always looks great and the gun looks great and he skips showing the target. Kind of like a glamour shot, a publicity photo of a ballerina. We really need to see her dance you know? One YT channel that has helped me have more realistic expectations of myself is a former Baltimore police chief named HR Funk. He is a wealth of knowledge and when he shows his target he tells the story of the hits and misses.

With the Glock 42 I am learning the "Glock Hold" which feels like a high thumb. It has tightened the group and solved the limp-wrist problem. In my mind the little 380 pistols like the LCP here described are very similar tools. What can we really reasonably expect from them?

Here is my target any thoughts would be appreciated. I found it in the trash.

The body shots all over the left breast and left arm are using my normal grip hold. It is 7 yards weak-handed one handed and fast. There are 13 shots on the body 6+1, then reload another mag 6 shots.
The top left target is left-handed, a step closer still no delay in shots but I remembered to use the Glock hold. The score is 50/60.
The right target is right handed, two hand hold and I am trying to better align the sights for 2 shots. The head target is a couple of steps closer 5 yards, and I am trying to "aim small". Score 68/70.

Thanks and Kind Regards!
BrianD
 

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I decided to test my Glock 42 for accuracy one day several years ago. My goal was to see what the gun would do rather than stand up and see how fast I could empty the magazine. I shot slow aimed fire at just over 7 yds at a measured 23 ft sitting in a lawn chair resting the gun on my knee. My groups with a few different brands of 95 gr FMJ from the casual rest position averaged 1 3/16". I decided my G42 was plenty accurate enough for SD.
 
The original LCP is a great pocket gun & unlike its siblings that followed (LCP II and LCP MAX) it is safer to carry due to the double-action type trigger pull. Less chance of an accidental discharge.

@old cop, I'm glad you got the LCP out for some practice. Reminds me I need to do the same.

Oh yes, as several others have mentioned, my wife also fell in love with my LCP! Told her she couldn't have it but offered her a Keltec P3AT I carried before getting the LCP and she was happy w/that.
 
Excellent response Thanks!
I watched a YouTuber, Stav, her channel is "She Equips Herself". She was shooting a Glock 42 at 10 yards and closer and the target was an 8 inch circle on a human silhouette. After fifty rounds the circle was completely peppered up and there were four or five wild ones a couple not even on the silhouette. I have no interest in those fliers as they are irrelevant mistakes, but the 8" group however left me wondering. The pistol is capable of better, but she was not unhappy at all.

There are YouTubes featuring people shooting the handguns that they are reviewing and they never show the targets. Scootch is one like that. He always looks great and the gun looks great and he skips showing the target. Kind of like a glamour shot, a publicity photo of a ballerina. We really need to see her dance you know? One YT channel that has helped me have more realistic expectations of myself is a former Baltimore police chief named HR Funk. He is a wealth of knowledge and when he shows his target he tells the story of the hits and misses.

With the Glock 42 I am learning the "Glock Hold" which feels like a high thumb. It has tightened the group and solved the limp-wrist problem. In my mind the little 380 pistols like the LCP here described are very similar tools. What can we really reasonably expect from them?

Here is my target any thoughts would be appreciated. I found it in the trash.

The body shots all over the left breast and left arm are using my normal grip hold. It is 7 yards weak-handed one handed and fast. There are 13 shots on the body 6+1, then reload another mag 6 shots.
The top left target is left-handed, a step closer still no delay in shots but I remembered to use the Glock hold. The score is 50/60.
The right target is right handed, two hand hold and I am trying to better align the sights for 2 shots. The head target is a couple of steps closer 5 yards, and I am trying to "aim small". Score 68/70.

Thanks and Kind Regards!
BrianD

SheEquipsHerself is kind of lame. Not impressive at all. HRFunk is great. He’s a former Ohio police chief and was a Marine MP before becoming a cop. He was also a certified S&W armorer for his department and knows the 3rd Gen’s and revolvers inside and out.
 
I am new to the Glock 42. Can you relate your everything about yours? I am able to group the Federal Hydra-Shok Low Recoil rounds in a 4 inch circle at 7+ yards.

I was influenced by a YouTube video where three women were asked to shoot and compare 4 popular 380acp pistols including the Glock 42, the Ruger LCP, the Smith Bodyguard, and the Colt Mustang XSP. Ladies review the Glock 42, Colt XSP Mustang, S&W Bodyguard, & Ruger LCP - YouTube

Kind Regards!
BrianD
My Carry Ammo is Hornady's Critical Defense I did Not measure the groups but it was plenty accurate for My Use,I had Glock Night Sights Installed @ My Local GT Distributors (They Install free while you wait if you purchase the sights there) I have 2 holsters a Desantis Pocket Holster & a IWB from UBG Holsters & also have 2 Magazines with the Pierce Pinky extension base & 2 Regular Magazines I use the ones with extension when carrying IWB & the Regular for Pocket Carry.
 
I also have a couple of LCP's. The first one has a carbon steel slide, and is of the older design, although a Post-Recall model. The second one has a stainless slide, and the revised and improved trigger and sights (still rudimentary, though).

The first one suffered from a takedown pin that walked out under recoil, but a replacement pin from Ruger resolved the issue.

Both LCP's are much more accurate than they have a right to be. ;) I've tested a variety of major maker JHP and Ball loads, but the standard carry loads I use are Speer GDHP, Rem GS and Winchester T-series, because those were the loads I either could use for quals (when my former agency stocked .380), and I could buy them for reasonable prices for myself. Come to think of it, I think I still have a 50rd box of Winchester STHP remaining, too.

Anyway, I added rubber grip sleeve to both LCP's, just to give my middle finger some better purchase under the snappy recoil of the little guns, and painted the front & rear sights with nail polish to make them easier to see and index.

Interestingly, my LCP's - regardless of trigger style - are virtually as easy to run on the usual qual courses-of-fire as my 5-shot snubs ... out to 20yds. Once the distances get out to 25-50yds, the snubs are easier to use to produce 'working groups'. Dunno if it's the bigger/better sights on the snubs, or the more predictable and familiar DA/DAO trigger pulls of the snubs, or perhaps just better stabilization of the heavier .38SPL & .357MAG JHP's ... but I didn't buy the LCP's with shooting out to such longer distances in mind, anyway.

A little while back I grabbed one of my LCP's to add to a range session for a LEOSA qual. Once again, the LCP pleasantly surprised me with how easily it produced accurate hits shooting both 1 & 2-handed. :)

Matter of fact, today my wife wants to run into one of the beach towns for some errands, and I have one of my LCP's out of the safe to serve as the retirement CCW of the day. Slimmer and easier fit for a jeans pocket-holstered weapon.
 
I also have a couple of LCP's. The first one has a carbon steel slide, and is of the older design, although a Post-Recall model. The second one has a stainless slide, and the revised and improved trigger and sights (still rudimentary, though).

The first one suffered from a takedown pin that walked out under recoil, but a replacement pin from Ruger resolved the issue.

Both LCP's are much more accurate than they have a right to be. ;)

Interestingly, my LCP's - regardless of trigger style - are virtually as easy to run on the usual qual courses-of-fire as my 5-shot snubs ... out to 20yds. Once the distances get out to 25-50yds, the snubs are easier to use to produce 'working groups'. Dunno if it's the bigger/better sights on the snubs, or the more predictable and familiar DA/DAO trigger pulls of the snubs, or perhaps just better stabilization of the heavier .38SPL & .357MAG JHP's ... but I didn't buy the LCP's with shooting out to such longer distances in mind, anyway.

A little while back I grabbed one of my LCP's to add to a range session for a LEOSA qual. Once again, the LCP pleasantly surprised me with how easily it produced accurate hits shooting both 1 & 2-handed. :)
.
I have a question about this Fastbolt and thank you in advance!

I wonder about the science behind this phenomenon. What phenomenon? By now I take it for granted that barrel length at self-defense ranges does not result in greater accuracy. I can see greater penetration or especially greater expansion velocity from a longer barrel. It is said that the sight radius helps in combat and I see that when shooting quick follow-ups. But when I control the gun, there is NO difference in accuracy, in fact usually the opposite.

I have a Chiefs CS40 which is more precise than every other handgun I own. I often practice with a Model 411 and the Chief together. I have slowly learned how to hit better with the 411 but the CS40 is easy.

18DAI spoke about his CS45 and said that it was surprisingly accurate.
HR Funk did a couple of videos on his favorite, the CS9. He also said something similar to your comment, "more accurate than it had a right to be." My trainer said same thing to me watching me shoot a Colt Mustang. Now you're saying the same with the LCP.

Please correct me, OK? I think there is something called "barrel harmonics", the vibration of the barrel because of the explosion. The shorter the barrel the less this effect disrupts the position of the barrel at the moment the projectile exits. A longer barrel can flex and rotate more, the shorter barrel is stiffer with less time for the effect.

Huh? That sounds all sciency and stuff, but the spiraling response of the barrel is not a large enough movement and the bullet leaves very fast. There is more miss showing on the target with that longer barrel than I can account for this way, assuming I even understand the idea.

If I saw your target after you shot both a longer barreled 9mm, and then your LCP, I would not be able to tell which hole was a 9 and which hole was a 380. If you shot a 380 target then a 9mm target with a longer barrel, I would expect the scores of both targets to be the same. If the LCP was a better score, I would not be surprised. HR Funk shot a LEO Qual course with his CS9, and the score was the same as any other pistol he used. But WHY??

SO, first question. Is this a legitimate observation?
Second question, regardless of whether it is debatable, given the phenomenon is real, how do we account for the relative better accuracy of your LCP or my CS40?

Don't let me put you on the spot FB. You are one of the valued teachers around here, so I put this to you knowing it is no biggie, but I still wonder.

Kind Regards and Gratitude!
BrianD
 
I am new to the Glock 42. Can you relate your everything about yours? I am able to group the Federal Hydra-Shok Low Recoil rounds in a 4 inch circle at 7+ yards.

I was influenced by a YouTube video where three women were asked to shoot and compare 4 popular 380acp pistols including the Glock 42, the Ruger LCP, the Smith Bodyguard, and the Colt Mustang XSP. Ladies review the Glock 42, Colt XSP Mustang, S&W Bodyguard, & Ruger LCP - YouTube

Kind Regards!
BrianD

I've had all four of those guns. The Colt (plus it's SIG and Kimber clones) and the Ruger went down the road. Still have the Glock 42 and S&W BG380.

If I could only have one gun and it had to be a .380, I would pick the Glock. Otherwise, the S&W gets carried when I need a .380.
 
I have a question about this Fastbolt and thank you in advance!

I wonder about the science behind this phenomenon. What phenomenon? By now I take it for granted that barrel length at self-defense ranges does not result in greater accuracy. I can see greater penetration or especially greater expansion velocity from a longer barrel. It is said that the sight radius helps in combat and I see that when shooting quick follow-ups. But when I control the gun, there is NO difference in accuracy, in fact usually the opposite.

I have a Chiefs CS40 which is more precise than every other handgun I own. I often practice with a Model 411 and the Chief together. I have slowly learned how to hit better with the 411 but the CS40 is easy.

18DAI spoke about his CS45 and said that it was surprisingly accurate.
HR Funk did a couple of videos on his favorite, the CS9. He also said something similar to your comment, "more accurate than it had a right to be." My trainer said same thing to me watching me shoot a Colt Mustang. Now you're saying the same with the LCP.

Please correct me, OK? I think there is something called "barrel harmonics", the vibration of the barrel because of the explosion. The shorter the barrel the less this effect disrupts the position of the barrel at the moment the projectile exits. A longer barrel can flex and rotate more, the shorter barrel is stiffer with less time for the effect.

Huh? That sounds all sciency and stuff, but the spiraling response of the barrel is not a large enough movement and the bullet leaves very fast. There is more miss showing on the target with that longer barrel than I can account for this way, assuming I even understand the idea.

If I saw your target after you shot both a longer barreled 9mm, and then your LCP, I would not be able to tell which hole was a 9 and which hole was a 380. If you shot a 380 target then a 9mm target with a longer barrel, I would expect the scores of both targets to be the same. If the LCP was a better score, I would not be surprised. HR Funk shot a LEO Qual course with his CS9, and the score was the same as any other pistol he used. But WHY??

SO, first question. Is this a legitimate observation?
Second question, regardless of whether it is debatable, given the phenomenon is real, how do we account for the relative better accuracy of your LCP or my CS40?

Don't let me put you on the spot FB. You are one of the valued teachers around here, so I put this to you knowing it is no biggie, but I still wonder.

Kind Regards and Gratitude!
BrianD


Sometimes it's best not to overthink these things. ;)

The shooter/gun grip & trigger control interface may be experienced differently for each shooter on any given day/night, as well as with each different gun. I'd not rule out the effect of breakfast and how much coffee you had before a range trip, either (or dinner, for a night range), rest, etc.

Some folks seem to expect less accuracy when short barrels are involved, or better accuracy when a longer 'sight radius' in involved, but the bullet doesn't care once it leaves the barrel.

If the load is as expected, and the bullet is properly stabilized by the bore, what you see (via sights) ought to be what you get when bullet meets target.

Folks sometimes neglect to 'follow through' on their sight hold as they complete enough of the trigger press to fire, though, or they shift their attention too soon to expecting recoil, and they fail to see the sights shift from their intended POA before the bullet is actually launched. Throw in a little anticipatory flinch, and/or inconsistent grip pressure of one or both hands from shot-to-shot, and hits may vary a bit.

Some guns, and their trigger press, may simply feel 'just right'. ;) Will that be the same from one day to the next? Who knows?

Now, combine short slide travel with perhaps more abrupt (faster) cycling, and the sights may snap back onto target faster, feeling more 'comfortable' to the shooter for subsequent shots. The whole recoil/cycling event is over more quickly, and the shooter can settle down for the next shot.

Larger slides (more mass) and longer slide run may allow a shooter to feel the recoil longer, though, which may have a subtle effect on how the shooter is anticipating (albeit unconsciously, perhaps) it to happen. This can sometimes be heard described as 'dwell time' in the hand during cycling/recoil. The caliber may come into play, too (i.e. slower 'push' of a .45ACP versus the abrupt 'snap' of a .40). One shooter might find the 'push' of the .45 too hard, while another shooter might not 'feel' the added snap of the .40, but likes the way it's 'over' sooner. Different strokes.

The shooter anticipation (and expectation) has more effect than a lot of folks may suspect. Want to get the human factor and influences out of it, put the pistol in a Ransom Rest and have the trigger pressed mechanically. ;)
 
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Thank you FastBolt. You are making the case that there is no real phenomenon, or perhaps more correctly, even if it does exist, it is wayyyy down the list of important things needed to get the job done. Yes, I see it is no biggie. Don't overthink it. Got it, thanks!

For the sake of argument, taken as a given purely for theoretical purposes,
say that there is a real phenomenon, how would one even account for it?

Barrel harmonics is a real thing in precision long range riflery. And it is obvious that very small deviations show up as a failure or a miss in the field, but I cannot wrap my head around applying that concept to a 2.75" barrel versus a 4.25" barrel at a range of 15 yards. On the other hand, I know that in musical instruments the tiniest adjustment can make all the difference because there are so many delicately interdependent parts.

When Paul Harrell was shooting the LCP, his groups were adequate but not impressive. "That is about the best I can ever do with these tiny pistols," he said. Perhaps 18DAI was surprised that his scores/groups were just as good with the little Chief as his other guns, not actually better. HR Funk was undeniably better with his CS9 but credited his long experience with that particular gun. "I have always shot this gun really well," he said.

Kind Regards!
BrianD
 
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