Rant kids school

J Rich

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My wife and I are on our way home today. We got a call from my son who was at home waiting on her to get off the bus. He said that someone stopped at the house, and told him that one of the kids on the bus tried to kill another kid. We hurry back to our side of town to find the bus. Meanwhile we are trying to call the school NO answer, the bus barn we get a voice mail. We get no calls from the school the bus driver NOBODY! Wheres my kid?

We finally catch up with the bus after riding around town for a bit and follow it home. We talked to my daughter she says that two sixth grade boys start arguing. One of the boys older sister jumps in and throws the younger boy against the window and chokes him out. The LEO's show up get the statements the boy goes to the hospital the girl goes home.

I know there are more details to come, but what has happened to this ZERO tolerance? Why was this kid not cuffed and taken to the YDC? Why do we not get phone calls from the school to at leased say your kid is ok, BUT? This is not the first time something has happened with the bus and no calls.


We do have a cell phone for her. We haven't been letting her take it to school she's only 11. I guess she will be taking it from now on. Maybe we will just start taking her to school. Home School is a last resort we want her to have some kind of friendship through school.


Any thoughts?
 
My daughter is in 7th grade.

When junior high happened, we started sending her to school with a phone for similar situations as this. Automated dialers aren't exactly quick.

Half expect to hear something from the school within a couple of days while they sort out he said/she said and LEO investigates--but don't be highly surprised if you don't hear anything else at all without tracking down the information.

LEO might make an arrest after more investigation. MIGHT. They might also consider it a done deal at this point.

You will likely have to get after and stick after school to get answers.
 
The other thought is, since you asked for thoughts and mentioned homeschool....

Avoid it if you can. I'm a teacher, and wouldn't do it. I believe in the public education system. But I am no fool and do not think for a minute that it is perfect. It's highly problematic in general, but to what degree varies a great deal even within the same district.

The way to fix the school system, is not to abandon it, but to populate it with good teachers, parents, and students and run out the undesirables. Not leaving the schools to them.

That is my nickel on that thought.

Stay after the school on finding out what happened and get some answers and results.
 
The way to fix the school system, is not to abandon it, but to populate it with good teachers, parents, and students and run out the undesirables. Not leaving the schools to them.

Not gonna happen. Unions won't let 'em fire bad teachers & litigious parents won't let 'em run out their precious spawn.:mad:
 
Not gonna happen. Unions won't let 'em fire bad teachers & litigious parents won't let 'em run out their precious spawn.:mad:

I don't know. I see it happening from the inside. If more people would quit giving up and saying it won't happen....then yes, it can happen more.

Don't let places like Chicago make you think teachers are making $85 K and whining about it and have some union protection against being fired for poor performance.

Most teachers elsewhere are members of Professional Organizations, not Unions (like myself) some of the Prof Orgs have kept the "union" name, but do NOT act or function like a labor union.

I also believe that more people should shadow local teachers do for a day or two before they start talking about what's wrong with schools and the edu system.

We have too many lawmakers that have no background in education with their hands in the school system-- that is a much bigger part of the problem.

Whiny parents is another issue altogether. I don't know how to solve that one rationally legally or calmly.

And the schools where corporal punishment was in the code, we didn't have to. The schools where we need to, we can't. Funny how THAT works.
 
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I will get answers tomorrow.

It's all backwards. Last year 5th grade my Daughter was told by the teacher to start writing in her comp book. The teacher told her to write about whatever happens through out her day. So she does. She found herself writing about another student who live a couple houses away. She wrote only truths, nothing threatening, and no other students would read it only the teacher. Well she told the boy she was writing about him. He told him Mom, she flips calls the school and so on. We didn't get a call. My daughter comes home and tells us who she was called to the office.

They Label my daughter as a liar, and a bully. My wife calls the Dean and warns him she will be in his office first thing in the morning. Come to find out they didn't even read what my daughter had wrote in her book. My wife read it to the Dean and asked him what part of it was bullying.

Seriously? I mean WTH you kids beating others faces in and nothing happens to them.


I'm still pissed!:mad:
 
I also notice you are in Georgia. You are going to have a hard fight.

Do not give up.

Start looking into what it takes in your district to get her on another campus, IF you can do it. You might not have to move her and probably won't need to at all, but better to know the process if it can be done just in case to not know at all.

How well do you know other parents? Might have to start finding out from them their kids' sides of the story and events and push them to put some heat on the school.
 
Sorry, but as things look now my 3 yr old grandson is going to be homeschooled. If there is any such thing as truth and a moral order, and if values have any meaning, he will be raised with those things in mind.

Public schooling was always more about conditioning the young than it ever was about education per se. The majority of the Founders managed to become quite learned without government-run schools of any kind, and without the resources we have at our disposal today.

Another thing--no doubt there are excellent teachers. With real "school choice" there would certainly be jobs for them. As for the others--we don't owe them a thing.

I wouldn't let just anyone take my Triple Lock shooting. I am even fonder of my grandson, and I am even less likely to let "just anyone" warp him in pursuit of--what?
 
Sorry, but as things look now my 3 yr old grandson is going to be homeschooled.

Please take my comments in the spirit they are meant, as helpfully intended and not patronizing or talking down to you.

There are very few parents who can pull homeschooling off on their own--especially as the student gets into things like algebra and beyond, advanced English grammar and literature, foreign language requirements, let alone arts education or the administration (yes!) of running a successful home school.

Please be supportive in helping your grandson's parents find the right resources and homeschool groups for the content areas they cannot teach. It is a full time job for at least one of the parents, if not both of them. Kudos to them if they can make it work right. Most people with an education degree won't even try it because we know what it really will take, and while we have the pedagogy, we don't have all the content. Or time or money.
 
I'd be very surprised if you find out what did happen with the boys, other than neighborhood rumors. The school has a confidentiality rule and the boys are juveniles.

What you need to do is be visible and active in the school. You should attend PTA and school board meetings, appear on field trips, volunteer, etc. And get other parents involved as well. The more watchful adult presence, the better, not just for the kids' sake but it truly helps the teachers keep order and keeps the administration accountable and on their toes.
 
We feel home schooling is just ok.:(

My wife is capable of doing it, but we also feel it is good for the kids to have that daily interaction with others their age. We have a few kids around here that have been home schooled. They just don't seem to be able to interact and play well with others. For those parents that do the home schooling around here they believe their child can do no wrong.
 
I'd be very surprised if you find out what did happen with the boys, other than neighborhood rumors. The school has a confidentiality rule and the boys are juveniles.

What you need to do is be visible and active in the school. You should attend PTA and school board meetings, appear on field trips, volunteer, etc. And get other parents involved as well. The more watchful adult presence, the better, not just for the kids' sake but it truly helps the teachers keep order and keeps the administration accountable and on their toes.



Barb I hear what you're saying. I don't know what it will take. I do know most of the good school leaders are no more. The ones in place now use the smoke and mirrors, and hide behind their Degrees. it's weak and pathetic if you ask me. BTW the events of today aren't rumor my kid was there on the bus when all this went down.
 
I am certified in Georgia to teach Pre-K through 5th grade, and 6-12 Social Studies (all subjects) I used to be listed as "English-secondary subject" or some such. I am Certified to teach Gifted-in Field, and to administer all the tests that are required.

I would not attempt to Homeschool my own child. I would try to find the best public School and move to the district if necessary, or spend the bucks for a good private school. (There is a Charter School amendment on the GA ballot this year, addressing these issues.)

I am disgusted with Public Education. My wife and I both made careers in Ed. Things have changed a lot. Mostly for the worst. Public Education wastes too many resources trying to educate those who either can't be educated beyond a certain level, or don't want to be educated. I don't want to sound like an elitist, but the "cream of the crop" so to speak isn't being served well at all. I would guess that the ratio of spending for the lowest 10% vs. the upper 10% (in intellectual ability) is somewhere around 10 to 1. Mediocrity is encouraged. Superior intellect is punished. Teachers have to run in circles and jump through hoops. Discipline is quickly becoming arbitrary and ineffective. Teachers in the Atlanta Schools are losing their certificates because of administrators just about requiring them to cheat on the standardized tests. Some are being criminally prosecuted. Not too good for morale.

I wish you could hear my wife. She has been a life-long supporter of Public Schools. She has made her living for 35 years now, teaching students, coaching, and now teaching teachers how to use the technology. Her Mother taught for 40 years. She is, putting it mildly, no longer a fan of Public Education, at least the way it is done now. I related earlier how, after running into some of these problems, our daughter started a career teaching at a private college. (Loving it, by the way). I didn't get into much detail, but our daughter basically was betrayed by administrators. They know it and I know it. I promise, if I live, it will bite them in the butt one day.
 
Barb I hear what you're saying. I don't know what it will take. I do know most of the good school leaders are no more. The ones in place now use the smoke and mirrors, and hide behind their Degrees. it's weak and pathetic if you ask me. BTW the events of today aren't rumor my kid was there on the bus when all this went down.

I meant what happens afterwards with the boys. You won't hear much of the disciplinary actions or whether arrests were made, etc.

My kids' school wasn't quite awful but nobody really strove very hard at the little country school. Our kids were the bottom scorers of the entire high school sending district. I know this because I went to the library and compiled a report of all the sending district scores. I also researched the highest scoring schools in the state and called their principals to find out how they did it. Universally, "parental involvement" was the answer.

So armed with my report, which I published in the local newspaper, I got a few friends together in a church basement and we started brainstorming ways to improve the school, rather than resort to home schooling or the expense of private school. Very quickly, most of the school's parents ~ and the entire community! ~ were behind the efforts to improve the school.

Teacher morale improved. School testing scores improved. We got a huge volunteer program off the ground, including tutoring and fundraising. We were able to build a wing that modernized and connected the two halves of the aging school.

Twenty years later, most of the programs are still in place and the schoolkids are doing well. It's a little school to be proud of now, all around.

It truly takes a village.
 
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Schools today are dangerous placed for children to be!!

Bullies rule..

Teachers have NO authority..

Supervisor(s) make stupid regulations...(how many supervisors does one school district need???)

Lawyers enforce stupidity...........

Other than that all is well.
 
I am disgusted with Public Education. My wife and I both made careers in Ed. Things have changed a lot. Mostly for the worst. Public Education wastes too many resources trying to educate those who either can't be educated beyond a certain level, or don't want to be educated. I don't want to sound like an elitist, but the "cream of the crop" so to speak isn't being served well at all. I would guess that the ratio of spending for the lowest 10% vs. the upper 10% (in intellectual ability) is somewhere around 10 to 1. Mediocrity is encouraged. Superior intellect is punished.

I gladly write a tuition check each fall to send my sons to Christian school. That check isn't small; we could easily make the payments on two modest new cars with the money we spend on tuition. I have two primary reasons for this choice. First, I don't believe in a valueless education because education is inherently values-driven. If you don't explicitly teach values with which I agree then you are, by definition, teaching values with which I disagree. I want my children's education to be coupled explicitly with the Christian values I intend to give them as part of our relationship. (I understand that some who read this will classify me as an "extremist", which is usually a term people employ to excuse themselves from the detailed thought required to evaluate my position and proffer detailed disgreement. If this is how I am to be tagged, I'm okay with that.)

Second, the public school district in which I live (Columbus City Schools) is so corrupt and so buffoonish that I could never in good conscience allow my children to fall into their clutches. Your desription above describes nearly all (if not all) of public education; it surely describes the clown show that is Columbus City.

I asked my wife if she wanted to homeschool. Had she said yes, we would be doing it. I am also quite certain we would do a bang-up job of it because it would instantly be a passion, and a full-time job for her and a part-time job for me. But she said no, so we use an alternative.

But evaluation of the alternative we employ shows that it is only a few degrees removed from the complaints offered in this thread about public education. The private school has admissions requirements but they still cater to the mediocre in the classroom. The teachers are surely of no better quality than those found in a typical suburban public school and the administrator doesn't strike as a particularly intelligent man. I confess I don't know him well so I'll withhold judgement about his character until I do actually know him.

What's the difference? My wife and I. WE are involved in our children's education. WE write the check. WE talk to the teachers and the administration when necessary. WE review all their work that comes home. WE spend extra hours per week in the evening engaged in extra reading, writing, and arithmetic with our young skulls full of mush. WE set the standards; WE measure for compliance to the standards; WE perform work to correct deficiency relative to OUR standard.

Three weeks ago we received a document from school stating that one of our sons was selected to participate in a remedial reading program funded by the Feds. There was no place on the form to decline; rather, there was some B.S. "agreement" on the back of the form that required us to acknolwedge his participation in the program. Say what? My wife and I discussed what this meant, our principles, and what our measured response would be. My wife contacted the school administration to inquire about the test, its standards, our son's results, etc. She then met with the school's new principal who knew very little about it so he invited a teacher to the meeting who did know about it. We discovered...

... the "test" was assessed at the end of the previous school year. At least four months had elapsed since that test was administered. This meant the results were stale, at best.
... our son's teacher's assessment is that he doesn't need any remediation. This is what I thought also. I read with him at least twice per week and while he's not a stellar reader, his skills seemed age appropriate.
... the program has as lower threshold for inclusion in the private schools because the private school readers generally score better than the Columbus City students. Thus, our son wouldn't even have made the radar had he attended a public school.

We flatly declined the program. I send my kids to a private school to reduce government interference. We'll continue to work with them to achieve a level of excellence that we set and that will be reflected in their schoolwork. Not only am I capable of doing this, but really, I am the only one who CAN do it.

It's true that I don't like public education. I object to its very concept. Nonetheless, it is the system that plagues us today so my response as a parent is to ensure my children succeed despite it.
 
Teachers in the Atlanta Schools are losing their certificates because of administrators just about requiring them to cheat on the standardized tests. Some are being criminally prosecuted. Not too good for morale.

Who is being prosecuted, the teachers or the administrators?
 
About 180 people were implicated in the scandal. Apparently, the prospect of criminal prosecution, although bandied about, was abandoned because of the difficulty proving specifics, and because of the cost to taxpayers. Some teachers and admins lost certificates.
Educators punished in Atlanta school cheating

I know teachers who nearly have a nervous breakdown when testing time approaches. They work hard all year, but they can't unscrew the top of a kid's head and pour knowledge in. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken feathers, so to speak. There is tremendous pressure, starting from the top down.
 
The odds are good that the original story is overblown. Schools are also finally getting kicked around a bit over that zero tolerance garbage; punishing kids for using their inherent right to defend themselves or others has been out of control for too long.

Privacy laws vary from state to state (the federal law, FERPA, is a toothless waste), so it might not be lawful for the school to provide much information; the same applies to juvenile offense reports and case filings. In addition, the rush to judgment and related overly quick release of information often does nothing but agitate and require someone to correct the record later.

My guess is that a letter will come out after a few days. Most of this stuff does not matter in grand scheme; when I was in school almost nothing was publicized and no one suffered as a result. Kids needs to be taught to avoid what they can, solve their own problems if needed, and then keep their mouths shut if it turns into an investigation until the parents AND (not or - this is not a user friendly process) a lawyer are there, especially if LE gets involved.
 
Homeschooled kids I have known played on area soccer teams, were in
Scouts (two made Eagle), and shot with adults and on junior teams at the local ranges.

None lacked for friends either in the homeschool community, or in
public school. None that I knew had more trouble adjusting to college
than other students either.

Several also took courses at local high schools, or played on
sports teams. (A local school came to that slowly but finding a tall
homeschool kid who was a good basketball player helped them see
the light.) Others were able to take courses at local universities or
colleges.

The "socialization" problem often mentioned by those opposed to
home schooling is very often a red herring.
 
my wife retired from teaching grade school 2yrs. ago. she taught for 40yrs. and said many times all this started with the government interferance at least 15yrs. ago. it is only going to get worse as long the feds are in control. for the whiny parents problem mentioned above, spaying and neutering would help a bunch.
 
Back to the OP. You seem awfully worked up because there was a fight on the bus your daughter rides. She wasn't involved, right? Other than your son passed on a rumor to you, what am I missing?

A school bus fight was a regular occurance when I was in school. The difference, I suppose, was the absence of cell phones, so the rumors didn't spread quite so quickly.

A word on "zero tolerance". If my child is ever punished for defending himself, and I am sure it was nothing more than defending himself, I will likely be in trouble myself, because a principal, superintendant, school board member, etc. are also going to need to defend themselves.
 
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My wife just came home from the neighbors. She was floored by the 13 year old girl. This kid gets A's and can't count, can't understand science and thinks Germany is next to China.

Her 11 year old brother say's "See, I told you she's stupid".
 
Back to the OP. You seem awfully worked up because there was a fight on the bus your daughter rides. She wasn't involved, right? Other than your son passed on a rumor to you, what am I missing?

A school bus fight was a regular occurance when I was in school. The difference, I suppose, was the absence of cell phones, so the rumors didn't spread quite so quickly.

A word on "zero tolerance". If my child is ever punished for defending himself, and I am sure it was nothing more than defending himself, I will likely be in trouble myself, because a principal, superintendant, school board member, etc. are also going to need to defend themselves.




It's not a matter of kids fighting on the bus or at school. It's a matter of my 11 year old daughter did not get home as she should have. I can see the bus being a little late due to a change in driver or route. When an hour has passed, and your 11 year old girl isn't home. That's a whole other ball game.

As a parent there are many things that can run through ones head in a very short amount of time. Like. Where's my kid? Did she get on the bus? Where did she get off the bus? Has she been Kidnapped? Did she even get to school this morning? Did the bus crash? Did the bus break down? Where is my kid?

This is not the first time the bus has been that late. If there is a problem with the bus it would be nice to know. A call would be great cause you can't get anyone from the school on the phone after hours.

This is not my first child, so don't think I'm just being over protective. As for my kids defending their self. They are told not to start trouble with anyone, but make sure you finish it. I will go to hell and back before my kids are punished for defending themselves.
 
About 180 people were implicated in the scandal. Apparently, the prospect of criminal prosecution, although bandied about, was abandoned because of the difficulty proving specifics, and because of the cost to taxpayers.

That bit I have highlighted still baffles me even after all the years I have lived in the US. Back in England a case of this magnitude would have pursued to the bitter end. Justice is priceless.

Maybe this would be a better explanation of why things were dropped.
Apparently, the prospect of criminal prosecution, although bandied about, was abandoned because of the difficulty proving specifics, and because nobody from the city up to the state legislature liked where it was leading.

There, fixed it for you.
 
I was taught in the public school system K through 12 (1956-69). The schools back then were run by the parents through the PTA and school board. Now the public schools are run by teachers unions as well as administrators and school boards. All of them are, of course, afraid of trial lawyers.

Here's a quick example of the chaos that has developed over the last couple of decades. Teachers now have 35 to 40+ kids in their classes. Many parents don't want to admit that their children aren't quite "up to it" and need to be in "special" classes, and administrators don't want a court fight over the issue (especially given all the touchy-feely potential jurors around nowadays). So, a middle school teacher finds that he/she has 3 to 5 "special" kids in each class who are being mainstreamed. The teacher slows down instruction due to the "specials" and finds herself/himself spending way too much instructional time due to the "specials" in the classroom. The result is that unless your kids get into high-end honors-type classes (far less "specials"), the education they receive will have been dumbed down. All this so the "specials" don't get labeled. As you might expect, parents and bleeding-hearts hate labels.

My wife has been a middle and high school teacher in the public schools for 36 years. It's really gotten bad over the past two decades.

The real advantage of private school is that if a kid can't keep up (intellectually or behaviorally) out they go. After all, there are plenty of kids on waiting lists to get into good private schools. Of course, public schools have to take all.

JMHO and FWIW
 
The real advantage of private school is that if a kid can't keep up (intellectually or behaviorally) out they go.

JMHO and FWIW

Not always true. If the parents have money and keep it coming, the private schools here are only too happy to continue accepting the untalented and the unwilling. My buddy had one of his boys in private school and saw a lot of it.
 
I'm trying to imagine a bus load of kids, all with cell phones, calling their parents every time "something" happens. It appears our society has stopped thinking for itself and every time anyone runs into a problem we feel the need to call someone. Why? To tell us what to do next? To "comfort" us? I'll bet the LEOs in cases like this are very pleased to spend their time sorting out who said/did what to who. Given that communities are cutting police budgets, it appears people feel justified in using this resource for such important matters. I'm glad to be retired.
 
I'm trying to imagine a bus load of kids, all with cell phones, calling their parents every time "something" happens. It appears our society has stopped thinking for itself and every time anyone runs into a problem we feel the need to call someone. Why? To tell us what to do next? To "comfort" us? I'll bet the LEOs in cases like this are very pleased to spend their time sorting out who said/did what to who. Given that communities are cutting police budgets, it appears people feel justified in using this resource for such important matters. I'm glad to be retired.
This is not meant to reflect upon what started this particular thread, but the major effect of cell phones in the hands of kids has been to seriously enable "Helicopter" parents. My wife, the middle school teacher, is retiring next year. She says if she was going into teaching back in the mid 1970s like she did, she would do it over again without question. However, if she was a young woman making the decision today, she would not. For the past 12 years, she has not been recommending teaching to young girls.
 
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