Rare Failed Designs: CAC Model 45-1 Combat Model

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I posted this on a few 1911 forums but I thought I would post it here as this site if so full of knowledgeable, experienced, considerate folks.... I may get lucky



So let me start by saying this design failed for a reason. It is horrible. Horrible to take down, horrible to reassemble, 6 round mag, mickey mouse safety, monstrosity of a slide lock that looks like a 1911 safety, it is no wonder why it failed. Was supposed to improve on the 1911 platform. Really?


Only 150 made. Failed design. Bo Clerke Design apparently.


Info if you are interested:


Mossberg/CAC .45 – Forgotten Weapons


So backstory. Was getting some tint work done by a friend on a vehicle. They know my love for shooting. Start talking 1911's he says his fil's cousin has a cigar box full of 1911 parts in garage. It belonged to his brother who worked at the manufacturer who made this many years ago.


I open cigar box and see this CAC combat model 45 stripped to bare bones with multiple of the same part in box. Sure looks like a small 1911 but parts are strange and non standard. Cousin just wanted to have it assembled maybe shoot one or two rounds through it and put it in shadow box in honor of his Brother. he tried it, others have tried it, he even brought it to local smith who couldn't figure it out or just didn't want to but from what I know about the smith, he couldn't figure it out.


I am kind of a rain man when it comes to mechanical things and putting it together. I like puzzles. I figured out rubix cube in 80's pretty quick worked as a USAF rotorhead crew chief for years and got my 7 level before I got out. Love fixing and tinkering on things. So challenge accepted.


So of course I started fiddling with it on his harley lift while they are tinting my truck windows and got it all put together and functional with one exception. I am also assuming this is a prototype or an employee special as it has no S/N on it.


Exception: The firing pin mechanism seems to be held in by the safety lever. It is a mickey mouse design. There was no firing pin stop in box or that I could see from pictures. I cannot see any other way the firing pin is retained inside the weapon. The weapon is functional but is seems either it is missing a part or it is just horribly out of spec. It seems to get stuck in on occasion when manipulating safety and if I push it forward enough it pops out. Sometimes it stays stuck. I read a few things online how the safety sucks and it can fire even on safe. Yeah, scary no wonder it failed.


There are thee firing pins and a few safety levers so I haven't tried all combos yet.


The external extractor sucks too. But that's a whole different issue.


I know, I know, I shouldn't shoot this thing. But it is a rarity 150 made. i have never seen one before or heard of them. I would love to say I shot such a rare albeit *** it at least once and at least let the guy put a few rounds through it in honor of his brother to say he did and I like to live dangerously. The thing has been stored in a garage cabinet in a cigar box in pieces since the 80's/


Any assistance or help would be appreciated. I fully understand it is a failed design and a hunk of junk paperweight. However......If anyone has any insight or especially parts diagram documentation that would be great. I have searched the net for a few days using multiple search engines and scoured forums with no luck. Only thing i found was some forum posts making fun of it, a few websites talking about it like the one above, and numrich selling barrels for it but no parts diagram. Figured I would punt and start posting on 1911 boards in hopes of getting lucky


Thanks in advance for all comments good and bad....


Photos as evidence this frankenstein of a 1911 *******ization exists. I can provide more specific ones upon request:




















 
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Very cool.

Clicking on one of the pics sent my anti-virus software into a tizzy.



Simply because you do not have a popup blocker and popups contain viruses and you possibly have a browser hijack. It has nothing to do with the photo hosting site.

Is a legitimate site.


You can see from virus total it is clean with no malicious viruses



VirusTotal


You have an issue with your browser or PC/Tablet/Phone. I would download a cleaner and scan your PC. BleepingComputer.com - News, Reviews, and Technical Support is a good starting place.

Good luck!
 
Simply because you do not have a popup blocker and popups contain viruses and you possibly have a browser hijack. It has nothing to do with the photo hosting site.

Is a legitimate site.

You can see from virus total it is clean with no malicious viruses


You have an issue with your browser or PC/Tablet/Phone. I would download a cleaner and scan your PC. BleepingComputer.com - News, Reviews, and Technical Support is a good starting place.

Good luck!
I have a pop-up blocker, and the highest rated anti-virus on the market.

Weird.
 
Update on this one:


I contacted Mossberg and they acted as if they literally burned every document related to this handgun and referred me to the Mossberg historian Vic Havlin. Had a great conversation with him about the firearm and it's history but still no dice on the documentation for parts diagram and assembly and disassembly.

Is there anybody out there who may be able to help me with this. I'm going to press on and keep looking.

Mossberg only made six they all disappeared in Europe.


Carson arms made 150 plus a few of these walk aways. So my chances are slim in finding anyone with info but I am still looking.

Thank you
 
The overall look of the gun reminds me of Smith & Wesson's steel-framed autos, albeit obviously less refined.

Funny how folks have been attempting to improve on the 1911 ever since the firearm was originally released, yet it has never truly been replaced considering that it is still widely available in some of its earliest configurations with little or no modifications. Folks may argue that it has been successfully improved upon and replaced in the practical sense by more modern designs, but the fact remains that its continued production in older configurations shows that it has never been objectively improved upon.
 
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The overall look of the gun reminds me of Smith & would's steel-framed autos, albeit obviously less refined.

Funny how folks have been attempting to improve on the 1911 ever since the firearm was originally released, yet it has never truly been replaced considering that it is still widely available in some of its earliest configurations with little or no modifications. Folks may argue that it has been successfully improved upon and replaced in the practical sense by more modern designs, but the fact remains that its continued production in older configurations shows that it has never been objectively improved upon.

Can't beat perfection.
 
CAC .45 I have one of the originals

Good day. I saw your post and my father in law just gave me one of these this past weekend. Email me at [email protected] and I can share some more info on this gun. I have the original instruction book, box, etc. thank you. Jeremy
 
Good day. I saw your post and my father in law just gave me one of these this past weekend. Email me at [email protected] and I can share some more info on this gun. I have the original instruction book, box, etc. thank you. Jeremy

Seek and yee shall find, how about that.An original instruction manual should help open some doors for you. Good luck in your quest.
 
Very interesting. Recall seeing ads for it, never read any reviews. Mossberg also tried to market a single action called "The Abilene", they bought the design from a company in Riverhead, LI called US Arms. IIRC Ruger claimed patent infringement. I have one, well made, good shooter.
 
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Good day. I saw your post and my father in law just gave me one of these this past weekend. Email me at [email protected] and I can share some more info on this gun. I have the original instruction book, box, etc. thank you. Jeremy


Thank you for the response. I sent you an e-mail. :D
 
I have to ask; what is that contraption on the front of the trigger guard?




There was a time when placing the off-hand index finger on the front of the trigger guard was thought to be a good option. A few brands of pistols still have a trigger guard shaped for it. Glock is one of them. This looks like what that is for, just a more exaggerated version. A lot still use this method although there are a lot of naysayers these days.



[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22msLVCtPk8&feature=emb_title[/ame]




Guess who else likes to do that?


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRvO_1B5dfc&feature=emb_title[/ame]
 
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Very interesting. Recall seeing ads for it, never read any reviews. Mossberg also tried to market a single action called "The Abilene", they bought the design from a company in Riverhead, LI called US Arms. IIRC Ruger claimed patent infringement. I have one, well made, good shooter.

Mossberg wanted a piece of the handgun market $$ but shied away from putting their name on any handgun. They were still Family owned (Allan Mossberg, Great(?)Grandson of Oscar was President of the company thru the 70's AFAIRemember. He was there when I worked for Pedersen Custom)

Mossberg got into the handgun market by having US Arms in NY make that SA Revolver.
Mossberg bankrolled the production and marketing, US Arms did the mfg and the gun was marked with the 'US Arms' makers markings.
After a couple years, US Arms was suddenly bought out by a company called 'AGI Corp' and US Arms was then listed as 'A Subsidiary of AGI Corp'.

AGI Corp used the same Corp address as Mossberg ,,the Grasso Ave factory location in North HAven Ct.. Also the same address of the Pedersen Custom Gun Co.

So AGI Corp WAS Mossberg Corp,,just by a different name so the nice family oriented .22rf rifle and pump shotgun maker wouldn't be associated with those bad handguns. But they could still make some cash.

The switcharoo name thing wasn't a completely blind thing as ads and marketing would sometimes show the Mossberg and AGI as two 'partners' in mfg'g.

Around 1978 after the old US Arms S/A (Abilene) was gone from production, AGI announced they were going to be making a 38spcl stainless steel revolver and also a 45acp semiauto also s/steel.

The revolver never came to be afaik. Maybe a couple R&D examples. I think they bought the design from another company that tried to bring it to market in the early 70's. Nothing really differnt about it.

The 45 SemiAuto was what later became the 45 CAC I believe.

Most say John Clerke was the designer of the pistol.
It may be he had some (maybe all) of the design input.
But my theory is that at least some of the design or some of the features designs may have been from Louis Seecamp.

Many don't realize but Seecamp was a gun designer/ R&D for OF Mossberg for nearly 30yrs. He design some outstanding firearms mechanisms that were way outside of what anything Mossberg might have been thinking of marketing at any given time.
..a .458Win Mag semi auto sporting rifle for example.
but all of his designs and pat were property of Mossberg while working there.
Mossberg could make a profit from just selling the pat or lic the rights.

His interests in DA conversions for the 1911 and hi-cap w/DA new mfg frames was starting to be known.
He retired from Mossberg in about 72/73 and started on his own projects and Company building those pistols and then the pocket DA's.

I'm wondering if Mossberg didn't already have some of Seecamps ideas for this 45, pat'd and otherwise that were Mossberg property and were used to design this pistol.

Clerke was certainly a capable if not somewhat eccentric type. He could build some beautiful firearms and then some not so beautiful ones. Talented for sure.
He had partnerships in several gunshops, machineshop/gun parts making setups around the southwest over the years.
I wonder (again) if CAC (Carson (Arms Co ?), California) where most of these 45's are marked as having been built wasn't another one of Clerke's enterprises.

Maybe it was going to be just another money making job for him and he never had much to do with the design,,or very little.
He may have undone some of the complicated things about an original design no matter where it came from and made it easier to mfg'r.
He was all for that type of mfg'r. You can see that in his single shot rifle action designs.

Just some of what I know,
and some of what I think may have happened.
The latter is called a guess.
 
My Abilene is marked "US ARMS-AIG, INC.
That is a very informative post. IIRC Bo Clerke was a very talented gunsmith and innovator-he developed the 38-45 round which was popular with Bullseye shooters, but I recall some 22 pistols he designed that never got off the ground.
 
I want to thank everyone for their responses. Jjordan1976 came through huge with photos of the original manual. Thank you so much Jeremy



Safe to say I have all the parts. It will not be shot as it is out of spec and unsafe. Just assembled and put in a shadow box in memory of the owners brother.
 
There was a .22 revolver made by a "Clerke Technicorp" company back in the early 1970s. I think the same revolver may have been available in a .32 caliber also. It looked a lot like the cheap German Saturday Night Specials. I have seen several of them, but not recently.
 
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