re blue question

[philconrad]

I have a model 19-4 that I would like to have re blued. Has anyone had something like this done recently? I would like this to be as close to the original finish as possible. Please post who did it , and were you happy with the results. Thank you

 

[rct269]

You can't do better for anywhere near the price than the factory---if (IF) a 19-4 is among those models they will do. (??) It should be identical to the original finish.

Next is Fords-----their Master Blue might well be regarded as superior to factory by virtue of a higher degree of polishing.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Hapworth]

Ford's enjoys an excellent reputation. Glenrock Blue, as well. Turnbull is the best if money's no object.

S&W no longer blues in the fashion they did when your 19-4 was made and cannot replicate its look anymore. For this reason I would not recommend them.

 

[colt_saa]

As Hapworth points out, the Factory no longer uses the same bluing process that was applied to the revolver when it was new. It is going to look different. However you might be happy with it

I have been using Fords for my projects. Sometimes they have a long lead time, but they do great work in both blue and nickel. Their work has always been spectacular

 

[bruce381]

of the subject but would a quality blue job like fords add or take away value??

 

[Photog]

IMO, refinishing generally decreases value.

 

[Hapworth]

of the subject but would a quality blue job like fords add or take away value??

Generally speaking, value is reduced. In some instances, say, where someone wants the model you're selling and doesn't care it's reblued (or they like the refinish) it can be a net neutral or small plus.

Occasionally a very worn collectible will be restored by the factory or an established restorer and it includes a refinish and that may increase value.

 

[rct269]

Turnbull hasn't done S&W's for years.

They're in business to make money. Time is money, and it takes a whole bunch more time to polish a S&W revolver to Turnbull's standards (with everyday polishing equipment) than it does to polish pretty much anything else I can think of. If you'll sit and stare at pretty much any 19th/20th/21st century S&W revolver, you'll see a whole bunch of different/varying surfaces. Now the factory used to (may very well still, for all I know) use formed polishing wheels---a different wheel for each surface. I dare say they had hundreds, if not thousands of them, and they made for very quick and easy polishing. I suspect Turnbull's folks use regular, everyday wheels-----which require a whole bunch more time and skill----both of which are expensive.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[NY-1]

Ford's has done some impressive work lately.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-hand-ejectors-1896-1961/679533-pre-10-snub-back-fords.html?679533

Jovino back from Ford's

 

[2152hq]

Turnbull hasn't done S&W's for years.

..

We never did S&W's. and I was there in the beginning
Too much time to do one. Can't make any $$.
Money was the only important thing in the shop, nothing else.

All that **** about history and the like,,,

SxS shotguns and L/A rifles , Colt SAA & Ruger SA's were the mainstay.
1911's came a little later after we got the Carbona Blue working.

Parkers by the arm load. Next was AH Fox, then the LCS, Ithaca, etc.
90+% guns completely redone because a 99+% gun would get more $$
if the customer didn't realize it was a redone gun.
High grades, Upgrades , Field grades and anything inbetw.

Lots of '86Winchesters, 73 and 76's.
Taking 33WCF cal 86's and having them rebored to 45-70, redoing the complete rifle was a favorite shop project. Then selling them thru certain other dealers.
A few Savage 1899 rifles came through, some Single Shots,,all easy to polish.
Some custom makers and 'smiths got their odd stuff done but it was usually already polished by them and ready to go to CCH/Blue.
Tell you the truth, I don't ever remember a S&W of any vintage coming through when I was there. But that was a long time ago and not one of the longer employs in my career!

Large CCH & Blue contracts from different concerns got preference over individual jobs from customers. All polished & set to go right to CCH and/or blue. Do the parts, ship 'em back. Those type of jobs started to show up just before I left.
$$$

 

[chief38]

Without pulling out my SWCA book, I believe the M19-4 was still made in the 1980's and was a "true" bluing job. Today's S&W Factory bluing is a completely different process, color, look and lacks the durability of the original. Even the Customer Service Dept. at the Factory will tell you that, so if the original finish is what you want, you are relegated to an outside source.

While Ford's has gotten great reviews in the past, I have heard some not so great stories right here on the Forum. Don't personally know if that is still an issue.

Last time I spoke to Doug Turnbull he was not doing Smith & Wesson's any longer as he could no longer keep parts in stock. Refinisher's don't like working on guns that they can;'t readily get screws and parts for - just in case they loose or break one.

 

[murphydog]

Perhaps posting some photos of the gun in question may help with an opinion.

My personal experience with the factory, in a way related to comments above, is the blue is a decent match for post-1980 guns, and if the pre-refinishing polish job is still good you will probably be happy with it. If the metal is heavily worn or pitted it will be tough for anyone to make it right.

S & W was/is on a refinishing break, so asking them if they are accepting work is a good idea also. Good luck in your decision.

 

[Laketime]

I know of only one small era with Fords regarding a new worker who goofed up a Python s pony.Other instances concerning gaps in side plate were authorized by customer because of rust issues were un avoidable.A lot of people like to parrot stories and add to them.

 

[geen]

I did reblue a 19-2 and a Model 36 but only because they were both in very rough shape when I found them and were bought at a price where the cost of the gun and the cost of reblueing got me to a palce where it was worth it and I could sell them for close to what I had into them. The 19-2 had white paint in all the rollmarks that would not come out. The model 36 had pitting and rust and little finish left. I stress again I would not have even considered it if they were not in such bad shape that they needed a finish. I had a local guy that did blueing (dont think he is doing it any more) charged $350 and did a very nice job. Not as nice as Fords but also not at Fords price. no shipping and I got it back in a week - 10 days.

19-2
before

after

Model 36

 

[Hapworth]

Interesting info on Turnbull -- didn't know they wouldn't take a S&W for refinish and surprised to hear it; too bad, their work is remarkable.

When the 19-4 was in production S&W was still using the carbonia process. Hot salt bluing came in with the -5s, and S&W doesn't even do that anymore for EPA reasons.

Whether one likes S&W current bluing method and result now or not, it won't match in any respect the liquid gray-black of the -4 era and earlier.

 

[DWalt]

I can think of five guns I have re-blued over the top of existing blue without polishing that turned out very well. A M1911, a Ruger Super Blackhawk, a Colt M1917, a Model 12 shotgun, and a Savage 1899. That was back when I had access to bluing tanks, so it didn't cost me anything.

 

[first-model]

Please don't re-blue the gun.

Regardless of how terrible the original finish looks, it still looks better than a refinished gun—even one done by a "professional."

A factory finish on a Smith & Wesson retains the crisp edges, the ruler-straight flats, the sharp roll marks, and the almost imperceptible transition between the frame and the side plate. Virtually every refinishing job I've ever seen manages to steamroll over these subtle nuances. The worst is when the side plate is buffed heavily, such that the razor-sharp edges are rounded. Instead of seamlessly integrating into the frame, it means that the side plate stands out like a sore thumb.

In some cases, the trigger and hammer are also blued—destroying the original case hardened finish and subjecting these parts to greatly accelerated wear.

In terms of resale: these refinishing jobs destroy the gun's value for any serious collector. It's possible that a refinishing job will manage to fool an amateur that will pay top dollar for a gun they imagine is in factory original condition, but that (in my opinion) violates a pretty core ethical tenet in our collecting community.

In short: let it be. If it's well worn, it probably came from honest use.

Mike

 

[2152hq]

Hot Salt Blue will often re-blue very nicely over an existing blued surface.
The worn areas on the part(s) will usually benefit from some light polishing to brighten and blend in any scratches to the original undamaged grit polish under the orig blue.

Lot's of guns are dolled up by simply running them through hotsalt blue to make them look better for sale purposes if the metal surfaces don't suffer from pits, rust and other damage.

Rust Blueing covers nicely as well over both Hot Salt blue and old Rust blue.
The old rust blue usually needs a good going over to break down the surface which can be a tough accumulation of dried oil.
The matted effect of most rust blue jobs brings this on and is a benefit to the finishes toughness.
Refinishing some SxS bbls can be a real chore at times. The old rust blued surfaces are choked with the hard accumulation. Draw filing the first few strokes will sometimes just barely bite into the surface. More like 'skating' across the surface till that accumulation is cut through.

If that isn't scuffed through with grit cloth first on a simple rust blue over rust blue touch up job on an old set of bbl,,the new blueing will usually refuse to take or be blotchy because of it.

Rust blue will cover Charcoal Blue & Carbona Blue as well. The color match won't be as good but it does cover the thinned out blued areas if that's what you want.

But you can spoil those pristine bright polish jobs usually underneath the old Charcoal Blue jobs doing a Rust Blue over them.
With out watching and knowing the characteristics of the rust blue formula you are using, they can etch the surface.

Then there goes that bright shiny perfect surface polish.
But it'll still be Blue!

A bright shiny polished blue finish is possible with rust blue alone. It just takes some technique.