Real Gunsmiths Disappearing

[fleabus101]

I've been fortunate to be friends with an accomplished gunsmith that I've known 35+
yrs. He's wound down as our ages progress, but he' s available when I need him. Esp since
I recently had my stroke. Still working thru it
but it gets better.
I was wondering how many of you have seen the decline of Smiths in your area. I count myself very lucky to be able to call on him.
Just had him cking some parts for me.
What the thoughts on your experiences getting
projects worked on that need more experience/
expertise than you have.
Appreciate your input/thinking about this.
Best J R..

 

[jmiles1960]

Completely agree. The decline of experienced, hands-on gunsmiths is becoming a real problem. I see more "large scale" shops coming on-line; I can't speak to their quality or cost of service. Offering a variety of services, several gunsmiths, you can't pick your own person, etc... I have heard the lack of trade schools, overall decline of interest in the gunsmithing trade, cost of learning, are primary reasons we are seeing less and less new blood going towards this specialized trade.

As collectors, owners and shooters, I believe the best we can do is share our knowledge and experience, and support our local gunsmiths and shops with work. I have taught myself some of the basic repairs and actually enjoy working on gun repairs when I am confident I can do the job correctly. Lots of great info here and knowledgeable folks.

 

[hobby-gunsmith]

real gunsmiths disappearing

From what I can see, experienced true quality gun smiths are either back logged on repairs or expired for health reasons. The younger generation, hobby gunsmiths, try to repair a problem but winds up intensifying the problem and complicates the issue. A true gunsmith will fix the problem, if possible, instead of buying a new part or trying to find an old part. Basically, there are very few drop in parts so if a gunsmith is experienced, he or she will fix the part that is broken or need of adjustment. I am a graduate of American Gunsmithing Institute on phase 1 for pistols and still acquiring experience on my own guns. Sure, I may have to make a part several times before I make the right one but that is experience and hands on is the way to go for repairing old guns or new guns but that takes a lot of looking around the Pawn shops or FFL's for used firearms that are in need of repair or purchasing one that is cheap. Fixing extractors and sears are basically a science in Physics and mastering the true corrections on that problem. The AGI courses are difficult and their method to fix a problem is Design, Function, and Repair. When you look at a firearm or anything you want to repair, how is it designed, how does it function and when I know those two concerns, I can repair the problem. You can use that method on just about anything you want to repair. I think, if one wants to select a substantial business, Gunsmithing is the way to go. This has been a breaking record for guns this year and lets face it guys and gals, someone has to fix these guns. I know graduates of the AGI are making the six figures working on broken guns and enjoyment at the same time. I am glad a completed the various courses with AGI and continue to enjoy the art of repairing my guns since I only have a FFL C&R License.

Nick

 

[Rammer Jammer]

There's a huge difference between the guys who can slap a bunch of aftermarket parts on an AR or Glock and the true gunsmith who can manufacture a tiny part in their shop to replace a broken our out of spec bit on a firearm.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

I'm pretty sure the gunsmiths at my LGS are still the classic, old fashioned, can fix or make anything, types of smiths. Thank goodness!

 

[fleabus101]

As mentioned having someone with the lathe,
presses, and fabricating, welding, machine skills and experience working on various firearms over time is a blessing to have around
near me. I think of having to send something
away, wait, and trust a stranger with a piece is
something I would really hate to deal with.
Esp when dexterity isn't what it used to be.
Just thinking how things are in your realm
dealing with projects that require knowledge
and exp to accomplish these days.
I count myself lucky and grateful.
J R..

 

[Old cop]

I’ve used Clark Brothers in Warrenton, VA for minor repairs w/good success.

 

[6string]

These are very true observations.
The tough skills are the artisan and technical ability in a broad base of fundamentals, and, the intelligence (problem solving skills) to use them well.
There are a number of contributing factors to take into consideration:
- The mentality of a general public (customer base) that thinks only in terms of disposable goods.
- A shift in manufacturing to cheap, cookie cutter firearm designs built to the same aesthetic as every other generic household item.
-A generation, or more, brought up on easy answers and instant gratification. Why invest in learning the skills and acquiring the knowledge when a quick buck can be had now slapping on parts off the shelf?
- A hostile political attitude. I'm sure many potentially qualified individuals chose other career fields that seemed more stable over the long haul. Consider too, that in some locales, just something as basic as getting your firearm to a gunsmith legally is a major hassle!
- The tradition of "apprenticeship training" has largely disappeared from our society. It's been replaced by an emphasis on expensive four year academic institutions which were never intended to be vocational in nature! Junior ends up with a degree in communications, $100,000 in debt, no real job experience, and an attitude that they should be hired at the top level of the income bracket.

But, this also ties into the drastic drop in the number of brick and mortar gun shops. I don't remember the numbers, but in the 1990s, there was a politically backed effort to crack down and/or harrass FFL holders. That saw a lot of folks leave the business.

On the upside, a free market usually steps in and fills a need where one exists. There's certainly enough information and resources available to train new gunsmiths.
Are there enough savvy customers with the means to support good gunsmiths?

 

[38SPL HV]

Finding a competent gunsmith able to work on revolvers is difficult nowadays. We have one in the area who is typically backlogged weeks if not months...but he is very good.

We had a great one when I was living back in Connecticut, Gunsmithing LTD (Mitch Schultz) in Southport, CT. His shop is in the old Sturm Ruger plant. I grew up not far from Ruger’s plant. Connecticut was in the forefront then in firearm manufacture, sadly, politics and social change have changed that and most of the great gun manufacturers have either left or downscaled to shells of their former selves.

 

[Protocall_Design]

From what I've seen, the good revolver smiths are dwindling down to just a handful across the country, due to most of the really good old timers retiring or dying off. There still seems to be a good amount of interest in a quality revolver these days, though.

I feel fortunate to have spent a 45 year career (so far) in the tool & die trade, going through both Boeing and Cessna in house tool & die programs early on. I have been building and shooting custom S&W revos for most of that time. I now have a home based machining business making prototypes of new inventions for myself and others.

I have always felt that the holy grail of revo smithing is a really good D/A trigger pull. It is possible to get there if you are an accomplished smith, but most people will never know how good their gun can be. To that end, I have invented a semi-drop in parts kit for the frame mounted firing pin K,L and N frame guns where the trigger gets lighter as you pull it, similar to a compound bow. This has never been done before in the history of revolvers. The last major advancement in this area was in 1909. It is adjustable to fire different primers, so the starting pull weight can vary, but it always ends up at S/A pull weight at the end. This way the average person can just buy the kit, trade parts, and have a very good D/A revolver. I'm hoping to get all the administrative ducks in a row in 3 or 4 months time.

 

[chief38]

Our hobby which was once a very popular national pastime, has been whittled down to a cottage industry. Politics, political correctness, public shootings, brain washing, etc. have all contributed to this and while gun ownership has grown recently, the sources for purchasing, servicing and ammunition has been shrinking. This will cause prices rise, acquisition to become more involved and seriously skilled and talented gunsmiths to become far and few between. A sad commentary - but true as I can see it. I wish it weren't this way and unfortunately there's not a lot of optimism left. That said..... I HOPE I am totally wrong!

 

[Igiveup]

We lost our great gunsmith last year, and he was only 84! He had gone thru the S&W school, was a great smith. There is one in Or. over by the coast that is good, but inconvenient.

 

[scattershot]

Unfortunately, they are few and far between these days. Most of them are parts changers, not gunsmiths.

 

[mattallamerican]

so true I know of only one in north east ohio

 

[78bagger]

In AZ we are fortunate to have Frank Glenn and Nelson Ford both in North Phoenix. I have dealt with both and always leave knowing that my firearm was in the best hands.

 

[JayFramer]

Most new gun owners care about two firearms and two only:

Glocks and AR-15s.

Both hardly ever require anything a few YouTube videos and some parts from Brownells can’t solve on their own.

About the ONLY thing most local gunsmiths in my area know how to do is install night sights... and even then they are not good at it. Had one local guy try and remove night sights from my Beretta for a fresh pair and clearly used a punch on the actual sight, not the dovetail insert. Seems these ships hire people who don’t even have a gunsmithing license?

Gunsmithing as we know it is all but dead and is dying daily.

 

[steelslaver]

A top craftsmen in my trade is worth a minimum of $38. If a shop is paying a full time gunsmith just $30 an hour it cost them about $45 ah hour. Match social security,pay the workmen's comp and unemployment insurance, etc. Then there is the equipment cost and space for that, parts inventory, and book keeping on his services. So, just to break even they need to charge $50 an hour. Detail stripping a revolver and reassembly takes 30 minutes minimum and add in any diagnostic time and its $50 bucks before he really adjusts anything or replaces a part. Set a barrel back a thread? Have to be moving right along to do it in less than 3 hours. You can spend most of a day doing a full blown tune up. Most won't want to shell out $250-500. Hey you can buy a new plastic fantastic for that.

Its like custom knives. Ya, I can sell them for $200 up. But, 99% just by a $19.99 special.

Everyone wants a craftsmanship. Few are willing to pay for it.
That makes being a gunsmith a tough way for most to make a good living.

I can get by on a S&W revolver and have most of the tools. Most of the rest of them would take some time and more tools to learn well, I got Remington's down pretty well, but thats it. Little stuff I can figure out. But, for me I only do what I want and mostly only on my own stuff. Labors of of love. I don't think there is any real money in it even if you did it full time.

 

[StrawHat]

...Everyone wants a craftsmanship. Few are willing to pay for it...

That is the problem right there. Add in a lack of patience on the part of the customer. I see threads all the time about a six month wait or longer to get something repaired or built. If the smith doesn’t have a back load he is new or not very good.

In NE Ohio, I am aware of at least two good ones still working.

Kevin

 

[malph]

I'm pretty sure the gunsmiths at my LGS are still the classic, old fashioned, can fix or make anything, types of smiths. Thank goodness!

If you still have guys like that around, support them. They are getting far and few between.

Most of the new breed I see are parts swappers.
The can replace the sights on a Glock, drop a trigger kit into an M&P and maybe build an AR from parts. But, they are not gunsmiths in the traditional sense.

Part of it comes from the guns that are now in vogue. Striker-fired plastic and ARs. They lend themselves to that level of knowledge and that is what we are getting.

You don't need to be Hamilton Bowen to drop an Apex trigger into a Shield.

For those of us who still appreciate a good revolver, it is getting to be a problem.

 

[Mrnurse]

A True Gunsmith is quite a rare item these days. In my day to be called a Gunsmith required Machinist skills with the ability to make parts to a fine degree of tolerance, Mechanical Skills, ability to read Prints and weld. Today it Bolt on Bob who clams to be a Smith.