Really stepped in it now

IAM Rand

IAM Rand

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So, while trolling the internet I saw that "people" recommend "Catch Cans" to help protect the engine and turbos. Great, I have a 3.5 Ecoboost and I want to protect it. I get one and put it on. Low and behold it works. I check it after a couple of weeks and there is oil in there. I am happy.

So then I do a little more looking around and see that Banks sells a muffler that will give me a little more power and better gas mileage. Who doesn't love more power and gas mileage. Bob's yer uncle, I get a Banks muffler and install it myself. I am just soooooo proud of myself for making my truck better......right?!?!:rolleyes:

Now I am finding out that I most likely have voided any warranty that I had. :eek: I am almost at 60K so no biggie on that but, I went for the extended warranty. Now I am not feeling so good. What the heck have I done. You try to make things better and you end up screwing them up. I am just trying to protect my investment and now it could be screwing it up. My buddy is a car guy and he is telling me that the back pressure that I thought was soooooo bad actually helps the turbos. Sometimes I miss a good V8 and I am not talking the juice.:D
 
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Read up on The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. It tells you what your rights are, what the manufacture rights are and more importunately what they are not.

As A Corvette guy I did plenty to my Vettes and other rides andstayed for the most part protected by my rights.

Depending on what you do you MIGHT lose protection on some things. Repeat MIGHT it depends on what it does to the vechicle.

We put on cat back exhausts, changed wheels,&tires changed breaks and as long as it does not degrade OEM performance standards your good to go. Add to that you only lose warring protection to affected areas. Example you put in a Computer chip for more power the radio gives out it is protected under warranty.

Course its in the dealers mindset to feed you a lot of BS on this subject read up on M-M and know what your talking about!
 
NYlakesider said:
Read up on The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. It tells you what your rights are, what the manufacture rights are and more importunately what they are not.

As A Corvette guy I did plenty to my Vettes and other rides andstayed for the most part protected by my rights.

Depending on what you do you MIGHT lose protection on some things. Repeat MIGHT it depends on what it does to the vechicle.

We put on cat back exhausts, changed wheels,&tires changed breaks and as long as it does not degrade OEM performance standards your good to go. Add to that you only lose warring protection to affected areas. Example you put in a Computer chip for more power the radio gives out it is protected under warranty.

Course its in the dealers mindset to feed you a lot of BS on this subject read up on M-M and know what your talking about!
Click to expand...


This^^^^^^ if you put in bigger rotors and pads and you engine explodes it will be covered.
You can work on your car or have an independent shop do any work, just keep receipts. AND, stay within the manufacturer's guidelines for maintenance.
 
NYlakesider said:
Read up on The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. It tells you what your rights are, what the manufacture rights are and more importunately what they are not.

As A Corvette guy I did plenty to my Vettes and other rides andstayed for the most part protected by my rights.

Depending on what you do you MIGHT lose protection on some things. Repeat MIGHT it depends on what it does to the vechicle.

We put on cat back exhausts, changed wheels,&tires changed breaks and as long as it does not degrade OEM performance standards your good to go. Add to that you only lose warring protection to affected areas. Example you put in a Computer chip for more power the radio gives out it is protected under warranty.

Course its in the dealers mindset to feed you a lot of BS on this subject read up on M-M and know what your talking about!
Click to expand...
Breaks? Come on, from a car guy?
 
Whether it's cars, guns, or something else there is at least as much bad information on the Internet as there is good. Far too many self-proclaimed experts and and amateur tinkerers who are without credentials for a good reason.

Seldom does it hurt to leave things just as they came from the factory and ignore the YouTube maestros.
 
rockquarry said:
Seldom does it hurt to leave things just as they came from the factory and ignore the YouTube maestros.
Click to expand...

My problem was I put a cattle puncher on the front and the added weight and poor aerodynamics took a little gas mileage way. I could get anywhere from 22-25 on the highway depending on how I/my wife the lead foot would drive. I just wanted to get a little of that back and extend the life of the turbos. Based upon what my friend said, backpressure helps the turbos and by taking that away with a new muffle, that may affect them negatively in the long run.
 
Reduced exhaust back pressure is a turbochargers friend. I pioneered turbochargers at Ford Motor Company in the early 80's. Google "Turbocharging the Ford 2.3L OHC". You will find an SAE paper I published. The key to long life is synthetic engine oil that resists center section coking and subsequent bearing failure.


Tom H.
 
IAM Rand said:
My problem was I put a cattle puncher on the front and the added weight and poor aerodynamics took a little gas mileage way. I could get anywhere from 22-25 on the highway depending on how I/my wife the lead foot would drive. I just wanted to get a little of that back and extend the life of the turbos. Based upon what my friend said, backpressure helps the turbos and by taking that away with a new muffle, that may affect them negatively in the long run.
Click to expand...
Turbos and back pressure ... if you want/need the turbo to spool up quicker a restrictive exhaust is better (more back pressure).
If you're looking for ultimate top end power then less back pressure is king (bigger exhaust piping immediately behind the turbo).
 
The job of the turbo is increased engine airflow —— power is proportional to airflow, assuming that you put fuel with it. The turbo compressor is more efficient with less exhaust back pressure. Regarding engine oil choice, I have been out of the business for almost two decades. My knowledge is obsolete; however, as a base engine engineer, I ran a bearing wear study and Mobil 1 came out on top (wide open throttle, 50 hours at peak torque, 50 hours at peak horsepower on electric dynamometer). Keeping a turbocharged engine in top shape is generally about keeping the engine fluids fresh. The coolant is often overlooked. I believe that the early adopters of direct fuel injection failed to recognize the cleaning effect of port injection. The valves got washed with gasoline, removing any oil residue. I believe the fix was having both direct and port injection on the same engine. Using less than 87 octane pump gasoline will generally reduce spark advance, which will reduce power and generate more heat from the late ignition timing. I don't recommend less than 87 octane fuel, especially if you are towing, etc.


Tom H.
 
Last edited:
Not arguing, trying to learn…

It seems to me given a high back pressure exhaust vs a low back pressure exhaust downstream of the turbo, the low pressure path will give a higher pressure difference across the turbo (assuming no changes to upstream stuff.). Higher pressure differential allows the turbo to do more work.

What am I missing?

In other words, for power, low back pressure is better. I'm not commenting on longevity, warranty, etc.
 
Anything after market done to a vehicle's drive train, cooling system, computer system or exhaust system under the warranty period will void it. Personally any mod's you might do should either be done after the warranty period or easily reversible without detection to keep said warranty in force. Anything you do after the warranty period - you are on your own anyway.
 
Well I am already at 60K but I did buy the extended warranty. I guess my other concern is do I need to get a new tune for the muffler? My buddy is telling me that with the change in the back pressure the turbo blow off valve may have issues. This is all so stupid. These auto manufactures protect their profits which I can understand but I also think that they do this even though the damage was a defect on their stuff. Can't win!!!
 
45Smashemflat said:
Not arguing, trying to learn…

It seems to me given a high back pressure exhaust vs a low back pressure exhaust downstream of the turbo, the low pressure path will give a higher pressure difference across the turbo (assuming no changes to upstream stuff.). Higher pressure differential allows the turbo to do more work.

What am I missing?

In other words, for power, low back pressure is better. I'm not commenting on longevity, warranty, etc.
Click to expand...

After a bunch of googling, it seems that the use of the term back pressure doesn't mean the same thing to all men. Back pressure before the turbo usually results in higher exhaust gas velocity impacting the turbo, giving better response. When the turbo is fully up to speed, low back pressure after the turbo maximizes efficiency and prevents boost drop-off at high revs. The most concise explanation I can find is in the lower section of the opening post on this page.

Just a moment...
 
The blow off valve is on the intake side of the turbo ... it limits the boost PSI to a set pressure. Keeps the engine head gaskets intact :) It is not going to be effected by the change in exhaust.



Anyway, you just changed the muffler right? The exhaust is still going to be restricted by the smallest pipe ID. In order to realize more power, along with a bit more turbo lag, The whole exhaust piping needs to be replaced with a larger ID pipe exhaust system ... right from the turbo's hot side (down pipe all the way back). Sans this, you really haven't change much right now.
 
IAM Rand said:
Well I am already at 60K but I did buy the extended warranty. I guess my other concern is do I need to get a new tune for the muffler? My buddy is telling me that with the change in the back pressure the turbo blow off valve may have issues. This is all so stupid. These auto manufactures protect their profits which I can understand but I also think that they do this even though the damage was a defect on their stuff. Can't win!!!
Click to expand...

It all depends on how the turbo wastegate is controlled. If it senses the boost pressure only, then I cannot see a problem. If for some reason Ford have decided to sense the exhaust side pressures before and after the turbo impeller, then a lower back pressure exhaust would cause the wastegate to open early. I doubt Ford do this because it means you have to sense pressures in hot components, and the exhaust flow arrives from the motor in pulses, so the signal requires much smoothing.

As for it being stupid, well what can I say. The demands on engine design to meet the requirements of both the EPA and customer performance expectations are extreme. Once the balance has been achieved, monkeying with stuff can, potentially, cause issues.

The need for a catch can I think arises because real world use is never covered thoroughly by the manufacturers. Ford probably do much testing at the outer edges of the envelope to ensure longevity when heavy towing over long distances in a hot and high location. Lots of shorter runs in a damp location probably does not get the same attention, but I know from living in the UK that you can run into major issues with moisture pickup under those circumstances. Killed a BMW auto transmission with British driving rather than the Bavarian expectation of a banzai autobahn run at least once a week to keep H2O out of the transmission fluid.
 
jeffrefrig said:
I had an SS Impala that was pretty quick. I asked about getting a cold air intake to give it a few more HP and they told me NO! Something about the warranty. What the heck??
Click to expand...

The warranty concern is potential incomplete/inadequate sealing with hardware that has not been design verified (DV'd).
 
Oldengineer said:
Reduced exhaust back pressure is a turbochargers friend. I pioneered turbochargers at Ford Motor Company in the early 80's. Google "Turbocharging the Ford 2.3L OHC". You will find an SAE paper I published. The key to long life is synthetic engine oil that resists center section coking and subsequent bearing failure.


Tom H.
Click to expand...

Castrol Syntech was my go to back in the day on one of those very plants.
Folks get so misguided over the concept of back pressure. the only reason to increase it is in a quest to make a quieter car.
Beyond that one party trick, it never helps.
In a turbo, the compressor is going to act as a dyno anyhow, and is probably the greatest factor in it's rotational speed.
 
Anyone use Amsoil? I have seen people out there (there being the internet) claiming that Amsoil is one of the best oils out there.
 
IAM Rand said:
Anyone use Amsoil? I have seen people out there (there being the internet) claiming that Amsoil is one of the best oils out there.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've met it's acquaintance.
Pretty spendy for the common commuter.
If endurance competition is your jam, it's worth consideration.
Till then, you'll never ask of your engine enough to see any appreciable difference as a rally cross driver would.
 
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