Reasons for shooting HIGH or LOW with factory sights, revolvers

[GeorgiaShooter]

I started noticing with our LCR Ruger-357 and the 442 Smith how I'm hitting low. Then I started shooting with no ammo and once noticed I might be pushing down? But in general I'm trying to diagnose some of the reasons, bad techniques that cause you to shoot high low, right left. It can become very consistent too which makes sighting the laser impossible for my wife and I on a gun.

Has anyone ever calibrated the laser to point exactly where the gun should hit then exercized or drilled their technique to hit that spot, instead of using the laser to compensate for faulty technique?

No doubt I need to humble my "male" self and go take some shooting classes to get past my skill level. But what are thoughts or sage advice someone can give?

My main aggravation right now is aiming dead on with perfect sight picture, steady squeeze and I still hit 4-6 inches below the bull. I can raise the front site high in the sight picture and compensate but I think this is just a bandaid for what I might be doing wrong. Sorry for the long explanation.

 

[ronnie gore]

sighting in

what bullet weight are you using, a light bullet higher velocity will hit low, heavy bullets will hit higher try 158 grain loads, learn to shoot the gun with the sights, lazers are just gimmicks, if you will learn to shoot you don't need one, and do you want to bet your life on a battery operated device, not me.

 

[OKFC05]

A diagnostic drill is for someone else to put a dummy round randomly in the gun, and then you shoot it normally. If the gun moves when you "fire" the dummy round, you're moving the gun.

What you describe as your shooting technique makes me suspicious that is what you are doing. Trying to pull the trigger exactly when the sights are " just right" usually results in "snatching" the trigger and "milking" the grip with all fingers. Low hit.

Put a quarter on the gun and dry fire it, send me all the quarters you knock off....

 

[Triggernosis]

Why do light bullets hit lower? I know they do, based on my own shooting experience - I just don't understand why....

 

[OKFC05]

Why do light bullets hit lower? I know they do, based on my own shooting experience - I just don't understand why....

The barrel starts to rise at the instant the powder starts generating pressure, and lighter bullets have shorter dwell time in the barrel, i.e., less barrel rise before bullet exit.

The weight difference usually amount to an inch or two at pistol ranges, while a good flinch can put the bullet a foot low.

 

[Pisgah]

Why do light bullets hit lower? I know they do, based on my own shooting experience - I just don't understand why....

They leave the bore faster, and at a lower point in the recoil arc. Most fixed-sight .38 revolvers have sights calibrated for the 158 gr. bullet.

 

[GeorgiaShooter]

I would have never been able to diagnose that. I knew asked this in the right place. I'll try this quarter and dummy round trick too. And some different grain rounds.

I was shooting lighter regular 38 rounds for practice. And I have not paid close enough attention to what grain they were. And of course my technique is probably faulty too.

At this point I think a couple of shooting lessons from a pro might py for itself in just the wasted ammo I use trying to get better myself. I can shoot a rifle or shotgun great but this handgun shooting thing is a whole other art form. I'll keep watching this thread but thanks for your time and wisdom.

P.S. Just looked, I was using Remington green box 38 and also 38P 125 and 130 grain rounds from Wallymart. I load it for protection with Winchester PDX1 38P 130GR.

 

[gr7070]

Grip. Grip is the foundation for shooting. Do you have a proper grip? There are many, many bad ways that folks hold a revolver and have no idea how poor a grip they have.

Trigger pull is very important is well.

Search for some videos on how to shoot a revolver. Jerry Miculek used to have some good ones from an outdoor TV show. However, they've moved around and I can't find them anymore on the web.

Maybe try different ammo. The Rem. is OK, but has a pretty snappy recoil. That might not be helping.

Use a rest till you get good. Then go offhand.

Coaching is a good idea, but you need someone who's a good teacher who knows proper technique. Not sure how determine that - get a referral.

 

[jimmyj]

Have you tried shooting from a sand bag rest?
This will show where your weapon's POI.
Then you can adjust your laser sight to that POI
Contact Ruger's Customer Service and find out what bullet weight the Ruger factory sight that Model in for.

 

[gr7070]

Oh, and dry fire, dry fire, dry fire.

 

[GeorgiaShooter]

Great advice. Examining the ammo, working on my grip and other factors, I think this will get me to the next stage for sure. This stuff, fortunately, does make sense. I like the bag rest, that will help isolate me and work the gun, ammo issues out on both guns. Working on dry fire.

Later when I test on the range with the right ammo, What are some common distances other people test and practice on? We work mostly on 15 feet mostly with some 25. We start close and work out.

 

[jimmyj]

Great advice. Examining the ammo, working on my grip and other factors, I think this will get me to the next stage for sure. This stuff, fortunately, does make sense. I like the bag rest, that will help isolate me and work the gun, ammo issues out on both guns. Working on dry fire.

Later when I test on the range with the right ammo, What are some common distances other people test and practice on? We work mostly on 15 feet mostly with some 25. We start close and work out.

Using your LCR and M442 I would start at 3 feet, 7 feet, 21 feet, and then 15 yards. 15 yards should be max.

 

[bearpugh4570]

get some light target/cowboy loads. get comfortable with the gun. sounds like you're pushing in anticipation of recoil. snubbies take practice to shoot well. i always put some color on my front sight.plain black sights are hard for me to acquire quickly and consistently.

 

[whodat]

I started noticing with our LCR Ruger-357 and the 442 Smith how I'm hitting low. Then I started shooting with no ammo and once noticed I might be pushing down? But in general I'm trying to diagnose some of the reasons, bad techniques that cause you to shoot high low, right left.

No doubt I need to humble my "male" self and go take some shooting classes to get past my skill level. But what are thoughts or sage advice someone can give?

My main aggravation right now is aiming dead on with perfect sight picture, steady squeeze and I still hit 4-6 inches below the bull. I can raise the front site high in the sight picture and compensate but I think this is just a bandaid for what I might be doing wrong. Sorry for the long explanation.

Hello LittleBrother,
Here is some food for thought. Tips on pistol & revolver shooting | how to grip pistol, shooting techniques, dry-shooting . Shooting a revolver is different from shooting a pistol. With that said, technique is important. I take pictures of my range sessions(targets) and study them later. I then work on whatever problem I see from there (stance, grip, etc.). Concentration is the key for me. This thing about bullet weight makes for good conversation, but I'm not sure about the science of it all .

 

[Martya]

Here is Jerry
Shooting USA: Jerry Miculek's Pro Tips | MyOutdoorTV.com

I am somewhat new to this, having some semi-pro instruction two years ago to get started. I shoot (not often enough ) factory ammo for now.

I mostly practice defensive shooting - draw the gun, bring it up, acquire a sight picture, shoot, in a short time, from different positions. I can hit the paper plate mostly every time at 4-7 yards and that is good enough for me right now to keep at it.

When I do stand square to the target at 7 yds and slowly aim, my old 642 with 125gr 38sp grouped about 1-2" low (have not tried the replacement I got a couple of weeks ago). My 13-1 with 158gr 38sp groups point of aim.

When I shoot my semi-autos the same way, both my M&P45 FS and my 4513TSW shoot groups 3" low at 7 yds, 230 gr ball ammo. (The M&P also a little left of center.)

Not sure why the revolvers are better, likely a combination of grip, recoil, and barrel length. I can grip behind the 642 barrel (higher) and the 13-1 basically has a sweet trigger and so little recoil.

Ran into a friend at the range last fall, he was talking about getting his daughter a CCW for Christmas, I showed him my 642, let him try it. At 7 yds, he put one a little low, then seeing that put the next 2 in the bull's eye; but he's been at it for 40 years.

I am still working on grip and trigger control, and again I am for now mostly practicing defensive shooting.

 

[What the]

All of the advice given is great and will help you shoot better. Grab at least 1 box of 158 grain standard velocity, they may shoot to POA the best for you.

Dry firing is the least expensive way to help sharpen your skills, it has the added benefit of strengthening your trigger finger. Try squeezing a stress ball a few minutes a day every day for at least a couple weeks.

Developing a good grip and dry firing will improve your shooting so quickly you'll wonder why you haven't been doing it all along. Concentrate on pulling the trigger straight through and and don't mess around with staging the trigger.

 

[stevieboy]

Consistently shooting low is often the consequence of "pushing" the gun in anticipation of recoil. This type of flinch is amazingly common and I'll be willing to bet that most of the people on this forum have contended with it at one time or another during their shooting careers. I know that I had a major problem with it at one time. I'm cured, but it took a lot of work.

Here's what I did:

1. I purchased a .22 caliber revolver, a Model 617. The gun has no recoil and it's a huge confidence builder. For the better part of a year all I shot was .22lr, until I could hold the gun as steady as a rock, both single and double action.

2. I dry fired about a million rounds, using the 617 and my other handguns. Note: when dry firing the 617, you must use snap caps because the firing pin will damage the rear of the chambers on a rimfire revolver when dryfired without snap caps.

3. I did a lot of dry firing in front of a blank wall or a mirror. I watched the front sight of my gun rather than the "target" and focused on eliminating all movement through the firing cycle.

4. I often dry fired with a quarter balanced on the top of the barrel, just behind the front sight. I practiced until I could pull the trigger six times in double action without the coin falling off the gun.

5. At the range I'd put an empty shell casing in one chamber then spin the cylinder before shooting so that I had no idea which chamber held the empty round. If I saw the front sight drop on the empty I knew that I was flinching on all of my rounds.

6. Once I had it down cold with my 617, I began shooting the more robust calibers. I knew that I was completely cured when I could shoot a full cylinder of .44 magnum without "pushing" the gun.

Keep at it! Practice will make perfect.

 

[gr7070]

Jerry Miculek used to have some good ones from an outdoor TV show.

Here's the Miculek video on grip. He has a handful of videos in this series on the other ascpects of revolver shooting. Great videos.

Jerry Miculek - Revolver Grip | MyOutdoorTV.com

 

[gr7070]

The Season One stuff in this link are still shots of the lesson videos I mentioned in my post above. If you googled Jerry Miculek and the Lesson Title you might find these stills in video form.

JERRY MICULEK

 

[47D]

stevieboy has given you some excellent advice. IME, shooting low = flinch. Lightweight guns like a 442 or LCR make for some pretty sharp recoil and can cause all but the most experienced shooter to begin to anticipate the recoil and drive the muzzle down.