Reblued value?

[65Whelen]

I'm in the market for a shooter grade 5-Screw. I'm seeing a lot of these guns (watching Gunbroker) in very nice condition, too nice. Now correct me if I'm wrong but I suspect a lot of these 66 plus year old guns have been reblued at some point.

Assuming there's no pitting, the action is tight, timing is good and it was a decent blue job how much will that affect the value compared to something with an original finish?

Also, some advise on how to spot a reblued gun would be appreciated.




Skeptical in Wisconsin

 

[Modified]

The value is highly dependent on the quality of the re-finish, and other issues with the gun (originality of stocks for example).

As to spotting a reblue:

1) All edges should be sharp, with no dishing in any markings, around screws, or on the side plate

2) The hammer/trigger should not be blue (or nickel), they originally were case colored and may have lost the coloring, but shouldn't be blue.

3) There should be no signs of polishing (waves, striations, etc).

4) There should be no blue inside pitting.

Those are the basics of spotting a bad reblue. Regarding how to spot a good, or at least competent, reblue the best way to learn that is to get burned a couple times so you can compare the pictures to the reality in your hand.

If you send me a PM with a link to the pictures I can give you my opinion (just don't post a live auction). Even when I can afford to buy such guns (which I can't right now because my deck is being replaced and I have a new baby) I consider it beyond rude to try to buy a gun out from anyone. An opinion I think you will find standard among the good folk on this '96-'61 forum in particular.

edit: by which I don't mean to impugn anyone on any other forum, just that I can vouch for this crew

 

[Narragansett]

If it looks to good to be true, it may very well be true. I have some 50's and 60's guns that look great. Look for a slight turn line and very slight wear around the muzzle. Ask for a picture of the recoil shield. If it shows no evidence of being fired, look harder for the imperfections mentioned above.

If the seller has a lot of sales, and great ratings, ask him. If he takes offense to your question, he probably knows full well, it is not reblued, and is offended that you might think he misrepresented a gun. I do not worry about that, it is not his money I am spending.

Ask for more close up pictures. Pay attention to the trademark, and the space if any around the faceplate in relation to the frame to plate line

 

[Hondo44]

Assuming there's no pitting, the action is tight, timing is good and it was a decent blue job how much will that affect the value compared to something with an original finish?

Skeptical in Wisconsin

For some very general decrease in value figures;

a factory refinished* gun about 25%. These can usually be identified by a star following the butt serial # and a date stamped on the left side of the grip frame under the grip. Otherwise they look just like factory original finishes.

after market refinished guns about 50% and varies greatly based on the quality of the metal prep and color/glossiness of the bluing.

These percentages also vary greatly based on the collectibility of the particular model.

* Pre war original finish guns and factory refinished guns leave the trigger rebound slide pin (just in front of the left grip on guns with round top grips) domed. Most after market refinishes flatten the pin. After WWII on new guns and factory refinished guns, the pin is flattened due to the Magna grips.

 

[Narragansett]

As a note to Hondo's post, the unfortunate thing is that many of the people bidding on these beauties do not care, and unfortunately they sell for over true value

 

[bruce5781]

What model/caliber are you looking for ? Might be some floating around here.

 

[65Whelen]

What model/caliber are you looking for ? Might be some floating around here.

I was already kindly offered a Pre-Model 27 from a forum member, sadly I had to pass, a missed opportunity. So, I'm kinda counting on the forum but unfortunately due to some short term health issues I'm just watching the market. I would much rather buy from a forum member rather than an online site. I also have to sell off some of my surplus parts from other projects to fund this gun.

 

[Narragansett]

I was already kindly offered a Pre-Model 27 from a forum member, sadly I had to pass, a missed opportunity. So, I'm kinda counting on the forum but unfortunately due to some short term health issues I'm just watching the market. I would much rather buy from a forum member rather than an online site. I also have to sell off some of my surplus parts from other projects to fund this gun.

In the last 3 years, I probably have bought 25 guns ( keepers) not the ones I have sold. I review the forum, and I place ads in the WTB section. I have bought 2 guns from GB, one because I knew the gun. I bought my first gun off GI, and paid too much . Lesson learned, but If i sold it I would be near even now

The beautiful M27 I recently posted came from an ad I placed and then cancelled. A couple weeks later, I got a PM if I was still looking. Caught a beauty at a fair price.

Use this forum IMO whenever possible

 

[ol777gunnerz]

info

Besides a star, S&W also has used a diamond stamp along with a date stamp.

 

[Ackley1952]

As a note to Hondo's post, the unfortunate thing is that many of the people bidding on these beauties do not care, and unfortunately they sell for over true value

Is true value not the last price it sold for? If not enlighten me on what true value is.

 

[Jack Flash]

What a reblued gun is worth is a very subjective thing that really depends on who is buying and what he wants it for. I will leave collectors out of this since you indicate you want a shooter.

Personally, I would rather have a gun with a high quality professional reblue over the same gun with a beat up blotchy finish. I wouldn't be interested as much in one with a sloppy amateurish reblue. That's where negotiations come in. If it's cheap enough and mechanically excellent, it will do fine as a shooter.

Obviously, if it's something that comes up for sale frequently, you can be a lot more picky. If you've been looking for one for years and only see them on rare occasions, you may need to lower your standards, depending on how much you want one and how long you're willing to hold out.

Case in point, I recently bought an old S&W British Contract .455 HE II with a so-so refinish. When I posted pictures of it here, a forum member was ever so kind as to tell me I overpaid. Well, you never see them in my area, certainly not for the price I paid, so that's why I bought it. I like it a lot and I am glad I bought it.

 

[Hondo44]

Is true value not the last price it sold for? If not enlighten me on what true value is.

In general maybe, but there's a lot more to it than that:

We've all seen two buyers at 2 am and maybe inebriated, get into an on-line auction bidding war which often results in a sale price higher than and in complete contradiction of current values.

Also in live auctions guns can go for lower than current market value due to the fact the buyers know they must consider a (sometimes hefty) sales commission.

Some people have deep pockets and can and will pay anything for a specimen they want.

Bottom line is that determining true values can be complicated, especially for highly sought after models. We can not jump to quick conclusions w/o knowledgeable experience, lots of data points, and careful reasoning.

I hope that helps,

 

[Hondo44]

Besides a star, S&W also has used a diamond stamp along with a date stamp.

There's several other stamps as well besides the star and date. The diamond indicates a replaced part which can be with or w/o a refinish. Refinishes can have additional stamps. Also we must keep in mind that the stamps were used by myriad workman and over many, many years. So stamp use consistency and lack thereof must be kept in mind. As usual with S&Ws, there are few hard and fast rules, often just trends in protocol that vary with vintage, even use of the star and dates.

Typical factory refinish stampings:

Thread link: Is this the symbol for a reblued gun?
Diamond stamp and unusual R-Bi stamping for refinish blue. Note also two rework dates:

Photo credit: Rick Bowles

 

[shirojiro]

I bought a really well done reblued 5” Model 27. You have to look closely at the caliber stamping to tell. It’s beautiful and shoots really well.

I got it without papers plus a couple of boxes of 357 ammo for $900.

For California, that’s a decent price. I’d do it again today if given the opportunity. It shoots incredibly well and the 5” barrel is kinda cool.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[stansdds]

Determining the value of a refinished firearm is a difficult task. For someone looking for a really nice looking firearm, but not caring about originality, a nicely refinished firearm would have a high value. For a collector of firearms, a refinished firearm, even if it is a factory refinish, has a lower value than the same model with an original finish in the same condition.

 

[65Whelen]

Once again a wealth of information, all very good. Thank you for your insight.

 

[The Gila Bender]

I'm in the market for a shooter grade 5-Screw. You're speaking my language, 65Whelen!

I prefer original finish (what's left of it), matching stocks, and no modifications other than factory or period correct, but there are always exceptions. Factory refin or repair is OK. When buying a shooter to shoot I am more concerned about mechanical condition and how much work will be required to bring it back to life. Most often old shooters require cylinder gap and timing adjustments and a thorough cleaning.

Suggest you keep an eye on the Forum classifieds and reach out to and make friends with Forum regulars. My favorite shooters have come from Forum members. Most of my 5-screw shooters show a lot of finish wear but are mechanically and functionally sound. Pickin's are a bit slim these days but there's still plenty of fish in the stream that will surface in time. I'm an N-frame guy and attentive to pre-WWII, post-war Transitional, and 1950 Model .38 cal., .357 Mag., and .44 cal. examples. Keep an eye peeled for a decent 5 screw Heavy Duty .38 that hasn't been reamed to .357, or a 1950 Model .357 Magnum (pre-27) or Highway Patrolman (pre-28). I see more of these on the market than others. You'll find one, good hunting!

Here's a few "experienced" five-screw shooters from the pile:
A well-worn but functional and accurate Triplelock, a round-top 2nd model .44, a 3rd Model .44 Transitional, a 1946 Heavy Duty, and a 1956 .44 Magnum. All good shooters to be used and enjoyed.

 

[ken158]

I do not subscribe to the idea that a re-blue is worth a certain percent less then an original finish - just because it is a re-blue. Who set that percent number? As noted, if it is a factory documented re-blue and that is known and advertised as such, the market will decide the value. If it is a poor aftermarket re-blue, the same applies. Just like the rarity of the gun. Excellent comments have already been made on how to spot a potential re-blue and proceed with caution.

 

[SS336]

The Gila Bender said

I prefer original finish (what's left of it), matching stocks, and no modifications other than factory or period correct), but there are always exceptions. Factory refin or repair is OK. When buying a shooter to shoot I am more concerned about mechanical condition and how much work will be required to bring it back to life. Most often my shooters required cylinder gap and timing adjustments and a thorough cleaning.

Suggest you keep an eye on the Forum classifieds and reach out to and make friends with Forum regulars. My favorite shooters have come from Forum members. Most of my 5-screw shooters show a lot of finish wear but are mechanically and functionally sound. Pickin's are bit slim these days but there's still plenty of fish in the stream that will surface in time. I'm an N-frame guy and attentive to pre-WWII, Post-war Transitional, and 1950 Model .38 cal., .357 Mag., and .44 cal. examples. Keep and eye peeled for a decent 5 screw Heavy Duty .38 that hasn't been reamed to .357, or a 1950 Model .357 Magnum (pre-27) or Highway Patrolman (pre-28). I see more of these on the market than others. You'll find one, good hunting!

Here's a few "experienced" five-screw shooters from the pile:
A well-worn but functional and accurate Triplelock, a round-top 2nd model .44, a 3rd Model .44 Transitional, a 1946 Heavy Duty, and a 1956 .44 Magnum. All good shooters to be used and enjoyed.



Very nice revolvers you have there. I agree with your post and would enjoy any of them.
There is something about an “experienced” revolver that makes me want it, to tell me, it’s story.

 

[Hondo44]

Who set that percent number?

Ken,

As you said, the market does. When you buy, sell, and watch enough sales and auction winning prices, that's approximately where the percent #s settle out. As I said, with considerations made for outliers, rarity, etc. They aren't guesses.

 

[raylan007]

If you aren’t an FFL make arrangements with your FFL to allow you to be present to open and inspect the firearm prior to him putting it in his books to enable you to return it without paying FFL charges. I know, it’s a terrible option of which I have never employed but it’s the best of a bad situation.

 

[vinn]

any rust or re blue removes all value for re-sale.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

What scares me the most about the OP is he’s buying online.
Buying a Reblue online is a lot different than in person.
I bought this one in person.
Package deal, my biggest gun buy up to that time.

 

[Waveski]

any rust or re blue removes all value for re-sale.

That sweeping generalization is certainly not true.

 

[Hondo44]

any rust or re blue removes all value for re-sale.

That's nonsense. One can only give them or throw them away? Any gun has some resale value even if only $5 worse case scenario!

 

[Frontiersman_]

The old rule used to be a refinished gun was worth half what an original gun was in the same condition.

I think how difficult it is to find balances that scale out a bit. I don't mind a refinish if it is well done. If it is really well done, you shouldn't be able to tell the difference.

So, an amazingly restored piece should still be worth more than an old beater with most of the finish gone. But don't underestimate die hard collectors. Some would rather have a 10% original than a restored piece.

 

[Modified]

The old rule used to be a refinished gun was worth half what an original gun was in the same condition.

I think how difficult it is to find balances that scale out a bit. I don't mind a refinish if it is well done. If it is really well done, you shouldn't be able to tell the difference.

So, an amazingly restored piece should still be worth more than an old beater with most of the finish gone. But don't underestimate die hard collectors. Some would rather have a 10% original than a restored piece.

One reason for this attitude is that there are no modern restorations of S&Ws. Or at least there are so few you can count them on one hand.

There are refinished S&Ws, a lot of them. But they aren't cost effective to restore in the way Winchesters and Colts are. So when a S&W has a re-finish the value of the gun becomes subjective and the price is simply set by.

So yes, an amazingly restored piece should be worth more than an old beater to most people, and I'd love to see an example of such a gun. As of yet I have not seen such a gun shared, although I have seen well refinished, and amazing customized guns.