Whit
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Everything being equal, revolver frame size/weight and bullet weight, what is the recoil impulse difference between 38 +P and standard 357 load?
Recoil Impulse
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If you ave the Bullet weight & vel, plus the powder charge and weight of the firearm,
it is just a matter of math.
Have fun.
it is just a matter of math.
Have fun.
More difference in (let's say) a J-frame than a N-frame. I want to say that first.
In a J-frame, I'd say as much as 20-25%. I have a J-frame .357 & have shot them out of it.............. Once.
K-frames, maybe 10-15%. L-frames, 10-12%. N-frames, 5-10% maybe?
My .o2
In a J-frame, I'd say as much as 20-25%. I have a J-frame .357 & have shot them out of it.............. Once.
K-frames, maybe 10-15%. L-frames, 10-12%. N-frames, 5-10% maybe?
My .o2
If you truly keep everything the same except the speed of the ejecta (including powder), then the recoil impulse varies as the square of the speed. In practice, that means in a 686 Smith 4" to 6" barrel shooting 158gr bullets is easy for the average beginner with .38 spl, but .357 has approx double the impulse, and makes a big scary noise.
How you hold the gun makes a huge difference in PERCEIVED recoil, and any normal adult can learn to shoot either.
My daughter was shooting my 686 6"" with .38 Spl at 10yr old.
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ReloadforFun
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Assuming a S&W M19 weighing 37.4 ounces, and using the SAAMI values for the ammunition, with assumptions of the powder charges, the numbers are on the order of;
38 +P 125gr 965 fps = 3.50 for free recoil energy
357 Mag with 125gr at 1425 fps gives 9.20 free recoil energy.
Powder for the 38 used was 8.5gr and 17.5gr for the Magnum
38 +P 125gr 965 fps = 3.50 for free recoil energy
357 Mag with 125gr at 1425 fps gives 9.20 free recoil energy.
Powder for the 38 used was 8.5gr and 17.5gr for the Magnum
Without a load cell and impact force sensors and someone that knows how to measure/calculate recoil impulse, it's most likely a wild guess.
SGT ROCK 11B
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If you are going to use 357 Magnum you need to practice with it.
An anecdote from the 1970s were female cops usually were terminated because they could not qualify with 357 Magnum ammunition and the Model 19. But with the heavier N Frame Model 28 they did manage passing scores.
SGT ROCK 11B
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More difference in (let's say) a J-frame than a N-frame. I want to say that first.
In a J-frame, I'd say as much as 20-25%. I have a J-frame .357 & have shot them out of it.............. Once.
K-frames, maybe 10-15%. L-frames, 10-12%. N-frames, 5-10% maybe?
My .o2
That was a good two cents.
I recommend the L Frame for anyone who seriously want to shoot 357 Magnum. My Home Defense revolver is a 686 Plus loaded with my 357 Magnum handloads.
Just a comment: sounds like you’re thinking 2400. You can get 357 close to that velocity with 8.5g of W231. (I was working on reducing recoil for the 125g JHP load when I read that.)
Pisgah
Member
I would describe the difference between the two as...startling.
Sort of like the difference between a peck on the cheek from your grandma and a full-on lip-lock with Linda-Sue-of-the-tight-sweaters in high school...
Sort of like the difference between a peck on the cheek from your grandma and a full-on lip-lock with Linda-Sue-of-the-tight-sweaters in high school...
ReloadforFun
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Yes - different powders will make a difference. I simply used a charge weight listed in one of the manuals that showed a velocity smilar to the SAAMI listing for the 357 125gr. I did not check multiple manuals to try to optimize anything, just trying to show a representative difference in the free recoil energy.
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For well over fifty years I've been shooting handguns and rifles that kick and I've not familiarized myself with "recoil impulse". Is this an essential knowledge factor in becoming a skilled shooter? Perhaps I've overlooked something important... please explain.
Not an answer to the posed question:
Felt recoil is what's important. The proper (for you) grips/stocks make at least as much difference as anything to felt recoil. For a concealed carry gun I like smaller wood or similar material.
A gun like my model 60 357, shooting magnums is fairly tolerable with the factory rubber, however with my preferred for carry bantam wood grips they start to sting after just a cylinder ot two. With +Ps it's good with either ammo.
With my 69, with magnums, it again is fairly tolerable with the factory rubber but become fairly brutal after a few cylinders with my wood bantam grips. With specials it's a pussycat with wood or rubber.
In the above cases I understand the tradeoffs I'm making with the small wood grips. It's a choice I make. For a belt gun I'm going for larger, more comfortable grips and possibly rubber, unless of course it's for a BBQ
With my 4" 686, with factory rubber it's a pleasure to shoot with whatever. The extra muzzle weight makes a difference. The only issue is quicker sight reacquisition with the +Ps as compared to the magnums. For duty purposes I always used rubber for both my 6" 686 and my 4" as well as for my 629. It wasn't for recoil, as the targets handled that well, but for a better grip when wet or sweaty. Plus who cared if you beat up a set of $20 goodyears and they handled getting beat on the car door jam or office chair much better too.
If your concern with recoil impulse is due to sight reaquistion then +Ps can make a very noticeable difference. Otherwise grip choice is the issue.
Felt recoil is what's important. The proper (for you) grips/stocks make at least as much difference as anything to felt recoil. For a concealed carry gun I like smaller wood or similar material.
A gun like my model 60 357, shooting magnums is fairly tolerable with the factory rubber, however with my preferred for carry bantam wood grips they start to sting after just a cylinder ot two. With +Ps it's good with either ammo.
With my 69, with magnums, it again is fairly tolerable with the factory rubber but become fairly brutal after a few cylinders with my wood bantam grips. With specials it's a pussycat with wood or rubber.
In the above cases I understand the tradeoffs I'm making with the small wood grips. It's a choice I make. For a belt gun I'm going for larger, more comfortable grips and possibly rubber, unless of course it's for a BBQ
With my 4" 686, with factory rubber it's a pleasure to shoot with whatever. The extra muzzle weight makes a difference. The only issue is quicker sight reacquisition with the +Ps as compared to the magnums. For duty purposes I always used rubber for both my 6" 686 and my 4" as well as for my 629. It wasn't for recoil, as the targets handled that well, but for a better grip when wet or sweaty. Plus who cared if you beat up a set of $20 goodyears and they handled getting beat on the car door jam or office chair much better too.
If your concern with recoil impulse is due to sight reaquistion then +Ps can make a very noticeable difference. Otherwise grip choice is the issue.
DWalt
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All other factors being equal, the recoil momentum difference would be approximately the proportion of the two muzzle velocities.
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From what I gather here, "recoil impulse" appears to be of little or no consequence. Practice enough to get used to your guns and ammo, all the while developing good shooting skill and you'll have no problem.
Good point...
Your point about being used to it has a lot of merit. Recoil doesn't usually bother me but being a little older and not shooting full bore .357s out of my 686 for a long time my recent trip to the range gave me a 'jolt' to say the least. .38s are like powder puffs out of an L frame, but when I reload .357 I tone them down a little.
Your point about being used to it has a lot of merit. Recoil doesn't usually bother me but being a little older and not shooting full bore .357s out of my 686 for a long time my recent trip to the range gave me a 'jolt' to say the least. .38s are like powder puffs out of an L frame, but when I reload .357 I tone them down a little.
Yendor357
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Recoil. Ignore it. No accomplished shooter is thinking about recoil.
OP that's going to depend somewhat on exactly which ammo you're comparing. Also, what gun you speak of.
A heavy barrel K frame shooting 125 gr +P JHPs will generate about 2.7 ft lbs of recoil. The same gun-assuming factory velocities are close- firing the same bullet at 1400 f/s (instead of 1000) will generate 5.4 ft lbs of recoil. A heavier gun will knock the numbers down, but the difference will still be there.
OTOH, how you perceive the recoil is entirely another matter. Remember that where you put the bullet and if it reaches vital areas is far more important than paper energy figures. There's a lot to be said for more moderate velocity .357 loads like the Remington Golden Saber. Running the math on the GS you get 4.1 ft lbs of recoil and much the same terminal effect.
A heavy barrel K frame shooting 125 gr +P JHPs will generate about 2.7 ft lbs of recoil. The same gun-assuming factory velocities are close- firing the same bullet at 1400 f/s (instead of 1000) will generate 5.4 ft lbs of recoil. A heavier gun will knock the numbers down, but the difference will still be there.
OTOH, how you perceive the recoil is entirely another matter. Remember that where you put the bullet and if it reaches vital areas is far more important than paper energy figures. There's a lot to be said for more moderate velocity .357 loads like the Remington Golden Saber. Running the math on the GS you get 4.1 ft lbs of recoil and much the same terminal effect.
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