red dot equivalent

[38magnum]

My guns like red dot the best of all powders that I have tried. sure the sample size may be smaller then I like to admit, but when fired side by side, red dot is significantly more accurate,

ie 38 special speer hbwc with bullseye are lucky to stay inside 5-6" at 20, red dot loadings staying inside 2" at worst..

I know PROMO is the base mother powder for red dot, Some forums claim its made from "off lots" of red dot, and others its actually over run production of American Select combined with something else..

My question is, what or where is the location of the load data for PROMO in handguns. Alliant admits its used for handguns but wont list any data online. And i cant find any in my lyman cast bullet books. And the internet seems to lead me to the cast boolits place, but the website is funky. all it does is give a log in box screen no matter what I try. but the site remembers my user name, and kindly tells me im still banned, and that i have unread messages in their system.

I found a place that i know is reputable that says they have cans of Promo on hand, and even bullseye.

 

[Nevada Ed]

If PROMO does not work out for you,
you might try a pound of Green Dot if you can find some.

It works in my M49, M686 and 9mm loads, from light target to +P loads.
Good luck finding powder.

 

[steelslaver]

I have been using Green Dot for my small caliber loads for a while now and like it. About 1/2 way between Red Dot and good old Unique

 

[38magnum]

the best so far has been red dot. green dot isnt bad but its not as good. And the loading data isnt the same sadly.

See much online in forums in last 10 years that alliant promo has same charge weights as red dot, but i cant find the official Alliant notice to that fact.

I have looked and hp-38 covers what I am trying to do in 44 and even 357. But I have 3 pounds already. And unique does the same, but I have 3 pounds

I have partial can each of bulls eye, 2400, 4227.

Id like to get something that will work, but unfortunately I cant get past the idea that MOST responses to this question over the last 3 years, from perusing the various gun forums have been to use longshot or clays.

I still havent gotten my new reloading bench made yet.

 

[H Richard]

You do know that HP38 and W231 are exactly the same powder don't you?

 

[Nevada Ed]

the best so far has been red dot. green dot isnt bad but its not as good. And the loading data isnt the same sadly.

See much online in forums in last 10 years that alliant promo has same charge weights as red dot, but i cant find the official Alliant notice to that fact.

I have looked and hp-38 covers what I am trying to do in 44 and even 357. But I have 3 pounds already. And unique does the same, but I have 3 pounds

I have partial can each of bulls eye, 2400, 4227.

Id like to get something that will work, but unfortunately I cant get past the idea that MOST responses to this question over the last 3 years, from perusing the various gun forums have been to use longshot or clays.

I still havent gotten my new reloading bench made yet.

Save the 2400 and 4227 powders for your .357 loads.
They are way too slow to do well in any 38 special loads, be it lead or jacketed bullets.
In my test, you are just wasting these powders for the faster burning ones, that use half as much powder
to get the same or BETTER results.
Plus, you will NOT have unburt powder laying on the shooting table or getting under the revolver "Star"
to lock up your revolver.

 

[alwslate]

Promo load data is the same as Red Dot. They are not the same density so load by weight.

 

[gwpercle]

The story I have heard is that Promo is Red Dot without the red colored flake markers ... you use the same data to load Promo as you do Red Dot . I have never bought Promo because Red Dot was always available but a good griend has loaded Promo and has told me he uses Red Dot Data and it works just fine ...
He see's no difference and I will use Red Dot data if I can score some Promo !

Two other powders you may want to look at is TiteGroup and / or Accurate #2 ... they seem to work fairly well if you can't get Bullseyeor Red Dot ... and ... TG and A#2 are usually ... Available !
Gary

 

[cowboy4evr]

I have used and really like Winchester Super Target . It's always proven to be very accurate and very clean . It's in the same arena with bullseye , red dot etc .

 

[Brian Parrish]

When OP says his guns like red dot the best, what specific effect are you seeing? Pardon my ignorance. Thanks for any insight.
Brian D

 

[38magnum]

When OP says his guns like red dot the best, what specific effect are you seeing? Pardon my ignorance. Thanks for any insight.
Brian D

ACCURACY. YEah, my guns shoot the bestest with red dot inside. Dont know why.

When a simple dose of 6 grains of holy red dot and a matts 240 grain swc for my 629 makes it shoot, clover leafs at 20 yards, i really like it. SO does the gun. Ive done the green dot load, and the group was almost 2 inches. The bullse eye equivalent loads were worse.

 

[Brian Parrish]

ACCURACY. YEah, my guns shoot the bestest with red dot inside. Dont know why.

When a simple dose of 6 grains of holy red dot and a matts 240 grain swc for my 629 makes it shoot, clover leafs at 20 yards, i really like it. SO does the gun. Ive done the green dot load, and the group was almost 2 inches. The bullse eye equivalent loads were worse.

How do you account for it?
Shooting from a bag right?
This seems like a rather soft 44 special load.
Are you using special cases?
I really hate reinventing the wheel, but I do understand the reluctance to be specific since there is no way to know how stoopid I really am trying to use your loads.
What happens if you increase pressures using red dot?
I gather you are comparing a red dot published "target" load with a similar pressure green dot load. Right?
Does this load hit to POA at 20 yds?
Thanks for any thoughts you have.
Brian D

 

[scattershot]

I load Promo and Red Dot the same,BY WEIGHT.

 

[38magnum]

How do you account for it?
Shooting from a bag right?
This seems like a rather soft 44 special load.
Are you using special cases?
I really hate reinventing the wheel, but I do understand the reluctance to be specific since there is no way to know how stoopid I really am trying to use your loads.
What happens if you increase pressures using red dot?
I gather you are comparing a red dot published "target" load with a similar pressure green dot load. Right?
Does this load hit to POA at 20 yds?
Thanks for any thoughts you have.
Brian D

I use 44 magnum data, in starline 44 magnum cases. yeah it may be "light" compared to factory Fiochi 240 grain jhp at 1300 fps. BUT the thing is... its still putting out 357 magnum _ muzzle energy with less recoil.

And this is froom shooting standing on my hinde legs, holding gun with two hands. the red dot load is like a laser sight.

 

[rwsmith]

Reloaders Center SAYS they have Red Dot in stock.

 

[njl]

I load Promo and Red Dot the same,BY WEIGHT.

I came here to say that.
Promo data would be redundant. It’s interchangeable with Red Dot by weight. They don’t guarantee same density as Red Dot, so if you dispense powder by volume (powder bushings) they’re not necessarily interchangeable, but if you calibrate your powder drop by weight, use Red Dot data.

I’ve been using Promo for close to 10 years and it’s my favorite pistol powder. If I could start over and load all my pistol ammo with just one powder, Promo would be it.

 

[Sevens]

^^Everything he said is correct.

I had heard this well more than a decade ago and I bought an 8-pound jug of Promo — rather than “hoping” it was correct, I sent off an e-mail to Alliant and quickly got a response from Ben Amonette, a ballistician at ATK and he very specifically told me the same thing.

By weight and not volume, Red Dot load date is Promo load data.

I tried to do a deep search for a copy of that e-mail and I cannot find it.

If you require more proof than that, send an e-mail or call up Alliant and ask them, then return here to share what you’ve found.

FWIW, I don’t like Red Dot or Promo because it meters poorly. But that Promo was purchased in the wake of Obama’s first POTUS election. I used it exclusively for .45 Auto, and the math worked out to something on the order of 11,000 rounds. I considered it a victory when I emptied that jug of Promo, I don’t care to use it again.