Reducing 22-250

[ageingstudent]

I've been doing some work with reduced loads for 22-250. I just finished up testing published loads for SR 4759 (worked great!) and am going to try IMR 4227 next.

In everything I have read only one article talks about brass sizing and it mentions full length sizing. I am using a bolt gun, but from what I read the shoulder actually tends to shrink some with reduced loads, and I can see where that might cause head space issues. I am wondering if anyone has tried reduced loads in this caliber, and if so do you full length size every reloading as a rule of thumb?

I keep cases for my reduced loads separate. I am liking the reduced loads for plinking on my 50 yard range. It's a little easier on the neighbors ears I think.

 

[klausinak]

I've not done a lot of work w/reduced loads; I can't think of how the shoulder could shrink? Maybe not get pushed forward, but it certainly can't get smaller...

If you want to neck size on the cheap, just adjust your FL die to only size the neck. Smoke the neck of a fired case and adjust your die down to the point where you just touch the base of the neck. A quicker method is to stick a nickel between the lock ring & press. The nickel method probably won't size the entire neck, but should give you more than enough to hold the bullet.

-Klaus

 

[Doubless]

What happens with reduced loads is that the powder charge (and resulting gas pressure) is not enough to push the case back fully against the bolt face, so the datum line is reduced a few thousandths from what a full pressure load would be. The firing pin pushes the cartridge against the shoulder in the chamber, and the lower powder charge does not fully push the brass back. This results in a shorter datum line (neck/shoulder juncture) than a full power load.

Just neck size the fired cases enough to securely hold the projectile and enjoy shooting!

 

[ageingstudent]

I've not done a lot of work w/reduced loads; I can't think of how the shoulder could shrink? Maybe not get pushed forward, but it certainly can't get smaller...

If you want to neck size on the cheap, just adjust your FL die to only size the neck. Smoke the neck of a fired case and adjust your die down to the point where you just touch the base of the neck. A quicker method is to stick a nickel between the lock ring & press. The nickel method probably won't size the entire neck, but should give you more than enough to hold the bullet.

-Klaus

I have both dies. I have a Lee FL that I use to bump the shoulders back every third or fourth firing in the manner you were speaking of. I have a RCBS neck sizer for the in between times.

I guess I should have said shorter or that the datum line moves sorry for being unclear.

I should have popped this article link up too: The Adaptable .22-.250 Rem. - American Rifleman Mobile

It talks about FL sizing returning the shoulder almost to where it belongs. I wasn't sure if I should do that every time. Either way is fine with me as long as the cases don't develop issues before their time.

 

[klausinak]

In a bolt rifle, you can get away with neck-sizing for quite awhile. When they get hard to chamber it means they're fire-formed a little too well, then FL size. A FL sizing die will push the shoulder back ; if you're already too short, it won't do much other than reform the taper of the case. That's probably as clear as mud.

Somewhere along the line you'll have to anneal the case necks.

 

[David R]

I have done it. I shot lyman 55 grain 22 cal gas checked bullets cast out of pure Linotype. I used 4759 and was getting 2550 fps.

The cases do shrink.

Here is a 300 yard target I shot 14 rounds then the bolt lug galled so I could not finish my string. 5.5" Lyman 225646

I quit shooting lead when I used 296 instead of 748 in a jacketed round. It welded the bolt shut. Remington fixed it for free because I told them exactly what I did once I figured it out my self.

The rifle came back like new and now I only shoot full power jacketed. I also only keep one can of powder in the loading room.

 

[ageingstudent]

In a bolt rifle, you can get away with neck-sizing for quite awhile. When they get hard to chamber it means they're fire-formed a little too well, then FL size. A FL sizing die will push the shoulder back ; if you're already too short, it won't do much other than reform the taper of the case. That's probably as clear as mud.

Somewhere along the line you'll have to anneal the case necks.

I follow what you are saying. I haven't gotten into annealing or casting. So far I've been okay with getting 8-10 usages out of my brass with full power loads and then recycling it or using it for other stuff around the shop. I wanted to try the reduced stuff for my little 50 yard private range. I could have bought a 22 mag, but finding ammo is ridiculous.

Also, I thought it would be good for shooting gophers. The longest shot is 50 yards so full power loads are kind of wasted at that range and very noisy. I have these running from 1600 to 2000 fps with a 55 grain soft point and they are plenty accurate to ring up a gopher at 15 to 20 yards haha.

The groups could have been tighter but i wasn't on sandbags like usual and it was cold and rainy. I liked the way the 15.7 grain load felt. Probably will do a tweaking run on that loadout for gopher popping.

It was strange to fire 10 or 15 rounds and not have a hot barrel. Even the brass was cool to the touch on ejection. The SR 4759 didn't leave much fouling in the barrel or the spent cases either. I expected more unburnt powder or ash.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Many years ago I used pistol and shotgun powder for reduced loads in my 22-250 rifle. Back then my best results tured out with Unique powder and a 55gr Speer SP bullet.

A few years back I had a lot of SR 4759 and a new chrony. I set out testing this power with the starting loads and near the top I was getting 2750 fps with the 55gr Remington FMJ bullet that was putting 4 at .51" at the 100 yard target.

I have some IMR 4227 but did not want to try it in the 22-250 case, do to my results in my 9mm and 38 special testing.

Good shooting.

 

[David R]

I also load reduced loads for my 222 over 20 gauge. I use a 45 grain lead gas checked bullet over 8 grains of unique. It shoots 1.5" @ 50 yards and a sheet f paper @ 100.

Don't worry, I would never attempt a squirrel @ 100 with iron sights.

I understand jacketed with the same load will work fine too.

There are rifle reduced loads in LEE handbook for 308 and another caliber or two.

I shoot a "30 carbine" 1115 grain coated (HI TEK) bullet in my Savage bolt action 308 over 13 grains Red Dot for 1825 fps and 2-3 inches @ 100 yards on a good day. I use this rifle shooting hunters silhouette and let others shoot it. It has an adjustable paralax 3-9 scope. My girlfriend shot 10 pigs @ 50 yards with 10 shots.

Beets the heck out of any rimfire.

I only noticed cases shrinking in the 22-250.

Enjoy
David

 

[ageingstudent]

Many years ago I used pistol and shotgun powder for reduced loads in my 22-250 rifle. Back then my best results tured out with Unique powder and a 55gr Speer SP bullet.

A few years back I had a lot of SR 4759 and a new chrony. I set out testing this power with the starting loads and near the top I was getting 2750 fps with the 55gr Remington FMJ bullet that was putting 4 at .51" at the 100 yard target.

I have some IMR 4227 but did not want to try it in the 22-250 case, do to my results in my 9mm and 38 special testing.

Good shooting.

Just curious why you did not want to try the 4227 in your 22-250? I see several loads listed for it in several manuals. Do you think it is not a good choice? Reasons??

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I tried reduced 223 loads with both H and IMR 4227, and found them to have 3 to 4 inch groups at 100 yards with 55 grain boat tail bullets. I think the velocity was to low to get a good stabilization on the bullet with a slow twist barrel. You might look at reloading for sub-sonic/silencers,They may have good combinations for your twit rate,then you can load faster if you wish. Ivan

 

[David R]

I tried to shoot some reduced loads out of my 222. Its a savage 222 over 20 gauge. I tried to shoot powder coated cast bullets with 6 grains unique with no gas check. Two of them went thorugh the target sideways at 25 yards. I shot 5 more with 8 grains unique (max). They went straight through but the group was a sheet of paper size. Next I fired a few jacketed regular speed to make sure the world was spinning correctly. I got a decent 3 shot group.

Next I loaded up a few 55 sp with the 8 grains of uniqe. At 25 yards ai got a decent group but they were tipping. I am only shooting squirrels with this. Head shots are all I will take, so I tried again off hand at 50 feet and got a decent group. It was getting dark, so I packed up my stuff to go hunting in the morning.

David

 

[David R]

Top left, first group, there are two key holes. 6 grains unique, no gas check 45 gr Powder coated bullets.
Same target is the final 5 shots off hand. After that I made one final sight adjustment to move the group a little to the right.

Same paper right target 8 grains unique with gas check.


Top right paper, left target My own lead bullets with gas checks. Barrel was fouled from the painted bullets. These usually shoot 1.5" @ 50 yards and will again if I clean the barrel.

Right target on same sheet of paper full speed jacketed. I am quite sure the flier is the first shot because the bore is fouled.

These groups were shot off my back deck in a half organized method. It was Friday afternoon getting dark.

David

If you are interested. I went hunting saturday Saw NO rabbit or squirrel track, NO partridge (what I really went after). Lots of snow and a few deer, none with horns. I found a couple rocks to shoot at and the gun is right on with the 8 grains unique and 55 sp at 20 yards. The shot gun is always on and I shoot 1 ounce magnum #6 hand loads.

This gun always liked light bullets, so I will try some 40 grain hornets with a light charge to see if the keyholing will go away.

When i first started all the groups were to the right. I soon found out the front sight had been knocked out of place. I put it back some time before the last couple groups.

The bottom target is just a bunch of holes and where I started to move the sights.

 

[ageingstudent]

What kind of partridge? Grouse?

I haven't had any keyholing yet. My savage has a 1 in 12 and seems to. Like 40-60 grain bullets and that's plenty of range for me.

 

[David R]

The kind that flies up from almost under your feet. Ruffed Grouse. Best wild game there is along with frogs legs.

I think this rifle is 1 in 14. I have a savage model 25 lightweight varminter with a bull barrel in 223. It has a 1 in 9 twist. I do not care to shoot reduced loads in that one. I use it every week on saturday morning for a 100 yard off hand match. Sometimes they hold a 200 yard match the same day. I used to shoot it with the 22-250 and cast. I did well and it made me feel good to beat the fellows with factory match ammo. I have since had enough lead poisoning so I want to stay with jacketed.

David