Refinish

[DARE]

Trying to learn how to spot a refinish. Here are some pics of my .44 HE 2nd model from 1926. Have been told that this gun is definitely refinished.
1. Side plate fit. Not very good on this gun and am told that no original finish gun has a side plate that fits like this one.
2. Pins polished flat. One I was told to check is the one under the left grip. This one does not look flat to me. Does not protrude as much as my .357 Magnum from 1935. The two pins forward of that, over the trigger do look flat. My .357 Magnum I only see one pin there and it is flat. Is the most forward pin on the .44 not there on the .357? No other pins on the gun look flat.
3. Fit between the yoke and the frame. That looks okay to me but I see a little blue difference. The blue is a little darker on the yoke than on the right side of the frame. Is the difference in blue a refinish indication?
Hope my photography is good enough to illustrate the problems.

If you can see other signs of a refinish in the photos would like to hear about those. If you need photos of other areas of the gun please ask.

 

[Ameshawki]

Side plate fit is off. All the sharp edges are rounded off. Trademark stamp shows rounded lines. I vote refinish, tho not a bad one. Certainly not the worst I've seen.

 

[Frieda's Boss]

To my very novice eye, the lack of sharp edges on the logo and "made in USA" stamps tell me it is a refinish, in addition to the things mentioned in the OP.

 

[Fullmetaljacket]

Looks like some faint pitting between the "M" in Made in USA and the sideplate, a little bumpy under the blue. The side plate almost looks like it was replaced as it is a little undersized, the seam is too large but it is uniform. Honestly an old refinish like this with some honest wear on top of it bothers me much less than mirror buffed obvious re-blue. Yeah, I'm re-blued, so what, let's go shooting. I mean, you know, if guns could speak.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

David, would you post a picture of the left side of the grip frame with the stocks off? The side plate seam is a little wider than optimal but could be that way from repeated removal and reinstallation. I don't see any dishing of the screw holes or polishing down of the pins. Some of the stamps are a little soft but this is a 100 year old gun, after all. Hard to say...

 

[gmborkovic]

David, from pics, tough call to be absolute. The end of the hammer stud still looks domed, not flat. Still a nice looking old shooter.

 

[DARE]

Thanks, Guy. Here is the pic.

Fullmetaljacket, sideplate not replaced. Same assembly number as the other parts.

 

[Truckman]

To my untrained eye the S&W logo looks a tad soft...But I'm far from anyone's expert......Ben

 

[Walter Rego]

Poor sideplate edge fit. Also the edges of the cylinder flutes look a bit soft and the hammer looks blued rather than the original color case hardened finish. Not sure about the trigger.

 

[Mbrgr1]

It sure looks....

like it has been worked on, also the trigger guard looks like it was smashed in a bit, the oval is off somehow, if the mechanics are good, should be a fun shooter!

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Well, there's nothing under the left grip panel that might help. What I see is a decent condition shooter that shows its character. Whether or not it has been refinished won't affect its value, IMO.

 

[glowe]

Absolutely no doubt that it was refinished for all the reasons noted above. For me, looking at the closeup of the "MADE" shows the effects of a buffing wheel. Faded edges are not what the factory did, and dished sideplate edges were NEVER done at the factory.

Here is a known factory original and an image of your revolver. Best thing to do is always compare to other examples. Look for high condition guns on auction sites like Rock Island or Amoskeag for those examples.

 

[DARE]

Not worried about value, just trying to learn. The gun was a project in my dad's desk. Found the frame with a few parts installed and later found a zip-lock bag with most of the other parts. Had to buy a few. The trigger guard was bent to the point that the trigger would not function.
I sent the pieces of the gun to Mbrgr1 in Oklahoma. He kindly assembled and repaired it. He got the trigger guard so that the trigger could be pulled, but it is still a little out of shape.
Because the gun belonged to my dad and has law enforcement provenance it will not be sold as long as I am above ground.
Shipped in June of 1926 to Frank Gamblin, Deputy Sheriff in Potter County, Texas.

 

[DARE]

Thanks, Gary. That comparison makes it pretty clear.

 

[Mbrgr1]

The trigger guard was bent to the point that the trigger would not function.
I sent the pieces of the gun to Mbrgr1 in Oklahoma. He kindly assembled and repaired it. He got the trigger guard so that the trigger could be pulled, but it is still a little out of shape.
Because the gun belonged to my dad and has law enforcement provenance it will not be sold as long as I am above ground.
Shipped in June of 1926 to Frank Gamblin, Deputy Sheriff in Potter County, Texas.

Now that! is funny! I didn't even recognize my own work.


I wish I could have pulled that trigger guard out a little more, but we got it working anyway, that metal is stout and any more push/pulling may have ended not so well.

 

[DARE]

Mark,
You might remember it better with these grips. I acquired the correct grips after you worked on it.

 

[Mbrgr1]

Mark,
You might remember it better with these grips. I acquired the correct grips after you worked on it.

There she is! That was a fun project.

 

[AC Man]

Trying to learn how to spot a refinish. Here are some pics of my .44 HE 2nd model from 1926. Have been told that this gun is definitely refinished.
1. Side plate fit. Not very good on this gun and am told that no original finish gun has a side plate that fits like this one.
2. Pins polished flat. One I was told to check is the one under the left grip. This one does not look flat to me. Does not protrude as much as my .357 Magnum from 1935. The two pins forward of that, over the trigger do look flat. My .357 Magnum I only see one pin there and it is flat. Is the most forward pin on the .44 not there on the .357? No other pins on the gun look flat.
3. Fit between the yoke and the frame. That looks okay to me but I see a little blue difference. The blue is a little darker on the yoke than on the right side of the frame. Is the difference in blue a refinish indication?
Hope my photography is good enough to illustrate the problems.

If you can see other signs of a refinish in the photos would like to hear about those. If you need photos of other areas of the gun please ask.

I have a couple 1926 pre model 10 that look like the day they were manufactured. All original. If this firearm is refinished, why does it look really worn???

 

[Muley Gil]

I have a couple 1926 pre model 10 that look like the day they were manufactured. All original. If this firearm is refinished, why does it look really worn???

It was probably refinished a long time ago and then carried a lot afterwards.

 

[TheTinMan]

Absolutely no doubt that it was refinished for all the reasons noted above. For me, looking at the closeup of the "MADE" shows the effects of a buffing wheel. Faded edges are not what the factory did, and dished sideplate edges were NEVER done at the factory.

Here is a known factory original and an image of your revolver. Best thing to do is always compare to other examples. Look for high condition guns on auction sites like Rock Island or Amoskeag for those examples.

A word of warning: even the best auctioneers make mistakes. Based on visual analysis here recently, Amoskeag had a refinished Model 1917 with no mention of that in the description. I like Amoskeag and bought more than 1 firearm at their most recent auction, but they do miss things sometimes.

 

[A10]

Interesting revolver, thanks for sharing! It looks like it was rescued fairly well....definitely not a collector but one heck of a shooter grade gun! I have to be honest, I'd be a bit tempted to Fitz that one.....

 

[bruce5781]

This is the second place I always look.

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

 

[DARE]

Thanks, Bruce. I tried to take a better picture of my gun. I can see that yours looks much better.

Think I see the 3rd lock on yours. So your gun is a Triple Lock?

 

[DARE]

Thanks for all the feedback. I learned a lot from this thread.
Signs of refinish;
1. Side plate fit.
2. Fit between yoke and frame.
3. Pins polished flat.
4. Crispness of markings.
5. Hammer and trigger blued.
6. Dishing under screw heads.
7. Compare the gun with known not refinished examples.

 

[JH1951]

Consider adding to your list.....
- metal disruptions such as nicks, dings, scratches, and pitting under the finish.
- checking on the stocks being worn out of proportion with the metal.

It takes a keen eye and practice to discern a good refinish job. I am still learning too. I have seen some well re-done pieces (in my opinion) get by some very knowledgeable collectors. I suspect that sometimes there is a fog that we as buyers develop that prevents us from seeing some warts because we wish them away. The problem is that no matter how hard we wish, they don't go away. Many gun safes have a spot way in the back where these mistakes live. I have been very fortunate to have been educated by members of this Forum. It has been amazing what other educated eyes have revealed to me on pieces I have evaluated for purchase. Fortunately I still have some memory left, and I keep an eye open for those little things in my searches.
Another thing to consider - if we are buying online, are there enough high resolution well focused pictures available to make a good overall assessment? And, if a seller doesn't mention a specific thing that is important to you, ask until you get an answer. Some sellers conveniently leave out important details when they are not favorable.

 

[mrcvs]

I would also add dishing under screw heads or screw bases not flush with frame. On your example, this is evident with regards to the sideplate screw between the hammer and the recoil shield.

A general dullness of the finish relative to other examples from the era.

 

[bruce5781]

Thanks, Bruce. I tried to take a better picture of my gun. I can see that yours looks much better.



Think I see the 3rd lock on yours. So your gun is a Triple Lock?

Yes, that's one of my TL's.
Here is a beater Outdoorsman.

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

 

[4K2022]

Mark,
You might remember it better with these grips. I acquired the correct grips after you worked on it.

That explains the wear of the bluing around the stock circles and frame. Always learning, but the white in these areas didn't look like anything I've seen under a wood stock and the edges are sharp and crisp. Great gun great story

 

[Inland7-45]

Refinished 1917

Trying to learn how to spot a refinish. Here are some pics of my .44 HE 2nd model from 1926. Have been told that this gun is definitely refinished.
1. Side plate fit. Not very good on this gun and am told that no original finish gun has a side plate that fits like this one.
2. Pins polished flat. One I was told to check is the one under the left grip. This one does not look flat to me. Does not protrude as much as my .357 Magnum from 1935. The two pins forward of that, over the trigger do look flat. My .357 Magnum I only see one pin there and it is flat. Is the most forward pin on the .44 not there on the .357? No other pins on the gun look flat.
3. Fit between the yoke and the frame. That looks okay to me but I see a little blue difference. The blue is a little darker on the yoke than on the right side of the frame. Is the difference in blue a refinish indication?
Hope my photography is good enough to illustrate the problems.

If you can see other signs of a refinish in the photos would like to hear about those. If you need photos of other areas of the gun please ask.

It is obviously refinished but that doesn't matter. It is a 100 year old + S&W. So the important issue is whether or not it is mechanically sound. As long as it is safe to shoot enjoy it the way it is. The best way to do that is to get a few hundred Starline .45 AR cases. The Lyman Cast Bullet Book and the Speer manual both have some good data for .45 AR with lead bullets. These are great guns and this calibers is easy and economical to reload.

Here is one of mine. This one was factory nickeled in the late 70s. It looks like the side plate might not be original. The frame was also stamped with the full address line during the rework. I added the wonder sight a few years ago. Collector value $0. But it is fun to shoot and will do until I can find a 6.5 " pinned barrel 1955 Target. I also have a Brazilian M37 and a few Colt 1917s.

Good Luck with yours.

 

[4K2022]

Mistakes are made but I believe most people are honest. I have a pair of '05s one is a blue gun refinished in nickel. There was no question about the finish,,, I asked the seller if the barrel had the same number as the butt? Yes
Does it also have a B stamped there? Yes