Refinishing old guns? - sacrelige?

[Doc Holliday]

If you are considering a refinish of a common gun that has no collector value....

It appears that many previously non-collectible items become so with the passage of time and changes in newly manufactured (whatevers)...
.

 

[Green Frog]

Think of the number of 1911 A1 GI .45s that were bought in the '50s and early '60s for a song then built into wad guns and hardball guns. One reason that original GI examples are so valuable now is that such a large %-age of the incredibly large original supply was altered. They were useful tools and a lot of them got used up.

Flash forward to the late '80s and early '90s when there was a glut of very nice police trade-in 10s, HB 10s, 13s, 66s, ad infinitum. Many of them were in near mint, and those were the ones we picked to build PPC guns because they were the easiest to get into accurate shooting condition. How much would those same near mint police trade-ins bring today? (And of course the reason in part is because so relatively few of them survive unaltered.) I built a 66-naught for myself that started out nice but when I was finished building was just what I wanted at an economical price... then. Do I wish I had saved a couple of dozen of the same to sell now? (DUH!!) But I don't regret building and enjoying the one that I got then!

Utility guns, like anything else that gets used up, will eventually acquire a certain collectibility in the unused state, that's just the nature of things. In 25 years on the Glock Collectors' Forum they will be talking about unfaded plastic without a single scratch. I can hardly wait!

Rant over,
Froggie

 

[one eye joe]

I'm with you, Doc Holliday. The "Rat Rods" and "Rat Bikes" look like what they are--piles of mismatched crap parts, IMHO. I'm 69 yo--been drivin' hot rods and bikes since the 1950's. We NEVER drove anything like that. If we drove a car in rattle can primer, it was only until we could afford to paint it--NOT because we were tryin' to make it look like that. Attached are a coupla pics of my 1966 Olds 88 which is bored and stroked out to 468 cubic inches, AND my 1967 Corvette Roadster. That's how I like to have my cars AND weapons look......

 

[S&W_aussie]

A 1940's M&P, coming from a guy in Austrailia, sounds like a Victory
model in 38 S&W. If that is what it is, and if it spent time in WW2
in Austrailia, then we are talking about a gun with some history,
involved in that history, in that part of the world.

Mike Priwer

Thanks Mike

I wish it was an Australian contract Victory (I think there was 8000 of them) but it isn't. It is a pre Victory M & P which is still collectable I guess. I assume it was sent over for the British/Australian forces as it is a 5" 38-200...only a letter will prove that I guess. The serial is 788XXX so again I am guessing around the 1940 mark.

Here in Australia any old Smith is a rarity...even though these were made in huge numbers there are not many around.

Here is a pic...I had another thread about it a while ago. You will see the rust issues in the pics.

Cheers

Mike

 

[blujax01]

I'm with you, Doc Holliday. The "Rat Rods" and "Rat Bikes" look like what they are--piles of mismatched crap parts, IMHO. I'm 69 yo--been drivin' hot rods and bikes since the 1950's. We NEVER drove anything like that. If we drove a car in rattle can primer, it was only until we could afford to paint it--NOT because we were tryin' to make it look like that. Attached are a coupla pics of my 1966 Olds 88 which is bored and stroked out to 468 cubic inches, AND my 1967 Corvette Roadster. That's how I like to have my cars AND weapons look......

WHOA!! That's some incredibly hot Detroit iron. Thanks for sharing. And it proves that whether they're restored or rodded it's all good.

 

[Andy Griffith]

That almost looks more like blood stains to me- but I could be wrong.

That is in very, very nice condition overall and, for just those little specs I wouldn't invest the money to have it done at all. I have many that are 5x worse than that and call it "character" one of which is definitely blood stained.

One other point that not been mentioned is the cultural aspects of refinishing- Europeans think of refinishing quite differently than Americans. American collectors do not want refinished pieces typically- they want original finish, even if there is only 10% remaining on a very rare variant. Europeans typically would rather have it professionally refinished than have it "ratty" looking before they buy it.

I'm not certain of how collectors like it "down under" but I do believe that piece is in fine enough condition overall not to warrant a refinish.

 

[Bell Charter Oak Holsters]

Now that I've seen the photos, I tend to agree with Andy Griffith. I'd just carefully clean off the rust very thoroughly. If that is unsatisfactory, consider trading up for a better condition specimen. A collector who wants one of these probably wouldn't balk if it were priced accordingly to condition. Whichever decision you choose, I wish you the very best of luck.

Cheers;
Lefty

 

[ladder13]

I'd definitely leave THAT one as is, but it's your gun.

 

[AirCommando]

a coupla pics of my 1966 Olds 88 which is bored and stroked out to 468 cubic inches, AND my 1967 Corvette Roadster. That's how I like to have my cars AND weapons look......

Fine machines both, Joe!

I especially like that dual snorkle air cleaner on the Olds.

 

[one eye joe]

Thanks for the kind words blujax01 and AirCommando. WELCOME HOME BROTHER........

 

[AirCommando]

Thanks bro!

Terry

 

[mikepriwer]

Mike

Pre-Victory or Victory Austrailian gun - I wasn't distinguishing.

I'd sure not refinish it. Get yourself some Corrosion-X oil ( or Kroil if that is available, or WD-40 ) and some burlap. Soak it for a few hours
first in the oil, then work on it with the burlap, keeping it wet with the
oil. That will remove all the rust, but not hurt the existing blue.

Then look at it, and see what you think. If you are still not happy
with it, then sell it, and find another. You don't want to destroy the
character of this gun.

Regards, Mike

 

[ar15ed]

i would agree. whatever condition an old gun is in, i think it should just be cleaned and preserved. i feel like there is a notch in history for a gun in any condition. some collectors have to have a perfect example, but many more would be perfectly happy with a legitimate well-worn example.

the other aspect of a refinish is what happens with the gun in the future. you, as the current owner may be perfectly happy to restore or refinish an old gun for your use, but what about the 3rd owner in the future? who is to say he won't try to pass it off as original (like the other hot topic in this forum at the moment!) i realize that it really probably isn't the "restoring" owner's problem, but it can definitely create some unrest down the road.

i can see where, at some point, for some reason, i might be tempted to restore some gun in the future, but at the present, i will just have to sit quietly in "don't restore/refinish" camp!

 

[Gary]

I have had good success improving the appearence of an old gun by cleaning it thoroughly, going over the bad spots with 0000 steel wool, and applying Brownells Oshpo according to directions. It blends well with the remaining bluing and darkens the finish a fair amount. It is also very durable. It turns a gun with a 60% finish into one with an 80% finish. I recently bought an old 16ga Stevens 311 with a fine coat of rust on the barrels. There was no major pitting so I went over the barrels with a wire brush until all of the rust was gone and refinished with Oshpo. It came out real well. I would not use this approach on a high value gun but for a common gun in rough shape it is an inexpensive way to improve its appearence while not changing its character.

 

[bnewc75]

nothing better than

a clean functioning beater,,,,,, no need for a face lift ,,,,,,,,,,,, clean it shoot it

 

[rhmc24]

Not much mention about 'upgrading' of finish or partial refinish. I have done it on several of my early nickel plated pieces. I use the kit offered by Texas Platers Supply. I have plated several entire pieces with it and it does a good job, probably not as durable as a pro job but can look as good. On several, where the nickle is worn and I can buff without dulling edges, like side of barrel, back strap, part of cylinder, etc. I can upgrade my piece from 40% to 60% or better. First try was a Colt conversion Pocket Navy, now about 60%, nobody has questioned it after 30 years. My best job is a TL, exc in & original nickel and pearls, received little care outside. Its now about 80%. I will never sell any of them and whoever has them decades from now will never question. Which revives a question about restoration, if the work is as good as original why should anyone care?

 

[moosedog]

I prefer to own original guns. Some are mint, some are not. Unless they are so ugly and unsightly that you would be ashamed to show it to someone, i'd say leave it alone.
A gun can only be original one time, and the wear on a gun, if honest wear, is part of it's history.
Having said that. In my younger days, I thought every gun had to be shiny and brand new looking. I was wrong.