Registered Magnum

[X Ring Ranch]

New Guy with a bunch of unanswered questions.

I would appreciate any information on this RM.

REG # 4950
SN# 59047

4 inch bbl with King front sight
Nickel Finish (N) stamped on the frame under the grip

I have sent off for a Factory Letter but nothing as of today.

Inside a folded up piece of paper was the original front sight (Baughman style) and mangled rear sight blade and a small piece of what appears to be the end off of a shipping box.

L
B 4 TX 7-54055
S

Just started digging and hoping I can identify who it belonged to.

The stag grips look like bone to me but I could be wrong.
Inside the grips on the rounded portion at the top of the grip has red ???? material making the circle. They are put in with brass threaded ???. They appear to be very very old and like nothing I have ever seen in my 70 plus years.

It appears to be have been refurbished (nickel) sometime in it's life and never fired again. NICE JOB OF REFINISHING.

Any leads will be appreciated !!!!


Will post pictures when my new computer is installed and working

Thanks again

 

[05CarbonDRZ]

We won't be able to tell you much without pictures,Even then A Factory Letter is the only way to get specific details.

 

[weatherby]

Pictures will help immensely but with no date stamp and that N
I've got my fingers crossed for you

 

[murphydog]

Welcome! Any RM is a find, refinished or otherwise.

The factory letter may take 4-5 months from request receipt, but once you have this you can request a records search from the S & W Historical Foundation for the details you seek. These 'may' include the order form, correspondence between the buyer/dealer and factory and other internal documents if they exist. The search is free if nothing turns up (I think). Hope this is helpful.

 

[murphydog]

Here is the link to requesting an SWHF records search and letter:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-historical-foundation/136062-s-whf-letters.html

 

[X Ring Ranch]

Added pictures with old computer. Will add better ones with new computer


Thanks again for the help

 

[Hondo44]

Welcome to the forum.

That's a great gun for your 1st post! If it was re-finished at the factory, there might be a star on the butt following the s/n or on the left side of grip frame under the grip. Also there should be a date under the grip of when it went back. if the hammer and trigger are not nickeled that would be correct factory protocol.

The grips are genuine India Sambar Stag antler, not bone simulating stag, very old but will clean and polish up to look like new. The red circle inserts on back to align with the frame is a typical technique of yesteryear.

 

[murphydog]

It's a beauty. From the photo the sideplate seam appears thin, suggesting it has not been refinished or it was done at the factory. Another indication of this would be a date code (month.year, 3 or 4 digits) or an R-N in a rectangle on the left lower side of the grip frame.

Are the hammer and trigger case-hardened or nickel (the latter would indicate a non-factory refinish)? Factory nickel RMs are extremely rare, as you might already know.

PS Jim also mentioned the star stamping as an indication of factory work.

 

[rburg]

OK, here's my ugly guess. Its a Kansas City Magnum. One of 300 or so shipped to that city near the end of the RM run. The serial and the registration number are pretty telling. In the past, the factory historian would even tell you that it isn't a registered type of gun because those guns were shipped without the registration card (the thing you sent back to get the tube with the certificate.)

That is not certain because I think we identified a few gun in the time frame that didn't go to KC. But the vast majority did, and the 4" barrel is a dead give away. Enjoy the gun. It should be a fine shooter for you. But don't expect to retire on the proceeds of a future sale.

 

[X Ring Ranch]

OK, here's my ugly guess. Its a Kansas City Magnum. One of 300 or so shipped to that city near the end of the RM run. The serial and the registration number are pretty telling. In the past, the factory historian would even tell you that it isn't a registered type of gun because those guns were shipped without the registration card (the thing you sent back to get the tube with the certificate.)

That is not certain because I think we identified a few gun in the time frame that didn't go to KC. But the vast majority did, and the 4" barrel is a dead give away. Enjoy the gun. It should be a fine shooter for you. But don't expect to retire on the proceeds of a future sale.

If that is the case why does it have a old tan parchment paper portion of the box or shipping container that says:

"4lbs TX 7-54055"

TX to me means Texas not Kansas

Wishing it was a Texas Ranger gun because most of them that I knew and know carry flashy sidearms.

Thanks for the information

 

[S&W ucla]

In Roy's article there are a number of nickel guns in the Reg 4800 range. The "N" stamp on the grip frame (if original) would likely indicate it was shipped that way. Only a factory letter will tell and then get the S&WHF documents. Good luck, hope you get some good info! In any case, neat gun, and a great piece of history.

 

[bmg60]

Hi
Here is a picture of my 4 inch reg. shipped to a Texas HP in 1939.
there were only 29 4 inch Nickel guns made.
The factory letter will tell you how it was shipped.
The SWHF should have some information on it.

Great gun Value is not high because of the refinish. But still worth more than a
more common barrel length.

If it was a original finish and in 98% all original condition it would be worth
about $15,000 to $18,000.
Thats what I value mine at.
Jim Fisher

 

[X Ring Ranch]

Hi
Here is a picture of my 4 inch reg. shipped to a Texas HP in 1939.
there were only 29 4 inch Nickel guns made.
The factory letter will tell you how it was shipped.
The SWHF should have some information on it.

Great gun Value is not high because of the refinish. But still worth more than a
more common barrel length.

If it was a original finish and in 98% all original condition it would be worth
about $15,000 to $18,000.
Thats what I value mine at.
Jim Fisher

Thanks for the information !

I am retired but I was a Police Firearms Instructor for over 40 years. I don"t know when TDPS began issuing revolvers but i have never seen anything that was nickle plated that was issued. All I have ever seen is a 4 inch Model 28 .357 blue.

I suspect yours is a "SUNDAY GO TO MEETING REVOLVER"

The fact is that yours is in such good condition tells me it was not carried much. Revolvers that are carried in a leather holster start showing wear at an early age. The muzzle on the left side will start to wear the bluing off first and on the cylinder. The next thing that goes is the bluing on the back strap where they lean the palm of their hand. I have seen some revolver barrels worn down they are egged shaped on the left side.

A nickel gun on a LEO always indicated to me that he was a
making a statement. It usually went along with his personality. A Texas Ranger can and could carry anything they wanted and most of them carried a Colt 1911 that were nickel or engraved. Remember what I said about "personality"

My RM does not show much muzzle or cylinder wear from a holster but I suspect it was carried due to the refinishing.

I took the grips off of mine and found the letters R-N on the left side of the grip frame. Also were the small numbers 6 8 0

I wonder if that means Factory re-nickeled in June 1980 ?

The hammer and trigger are refinished also but appear to be the originals but in nickel.

My RM has a KING front sight with a Baughman style blade. Yours has a Patridge front sight blade. Yours would drag coming out of a holster but was designed for target work or precision shooting. Another reason it is such good shape.

Thanks again for the information !

 

[VM]

I took the grips off of mine and found the letters R-N on the left side of the grip frame. Also were the small numbers 6 8 0

I wonder if that means Factory re-nickeled in June 1980 ?

You are correct.

 

[bettis1]

If the hammer and trigger are nickel that would indicate that the gun was most likely refinished again outside of the factory subsequent to June 1980 factory markings.

Bob

 

[X Ring Ranch]

If the hammer and trigger are nickel that would indicate that the gun was most likely refinished again outside of the factory subsequent to June 1980 factory markings.

Bob

I don't know about that.

It appears to have never been fired since it was re-nickeled. It looks new inside the cylinders and on the outside and the recoil plate shows no signs of being fired after refurbishing.

It has a later model front sight blade but the original small (nickel) sight was in a manila envelope along with a dinged up rear sight blade. The rear sight now is a white outline that matches the front sight in height. It still has the KING base.

Trigger is the lightest I have ever seen on a S&W without pushing off. The spring tension screw is all the way down and trigger pull in the SA mode is less than 2lbs and crisp.

 

[Göring's S&W]

I don't know about that.

Well S&W didn't nickel plate hammer and triggers unless it was special ordered. Basically, 1 / 10,000+ shot that a nickel plated hammer and trigger are factory. The only other possibility is that someone took the hammer and trigger individually and had them plated, or something to that effect, but most often, its a sign of a non-factory refinish in nickel.

Perhaps the gun was not fired after being refinished a subsequent time after the factory did it?

 

[Muley Gil]

Can you show a picture of the piece of shipping carton? I would imagine that "4 lbs" refers to the single action trigger pull.

"A nickel gun on a LEO always indicated to me that he was a
making a statement. It usually went along with his personality. A Texas Ranger can and could carry anything they wanted and most of them carried a Colt 1911 that were nickel or engraved. Remember what I said about 'personality'"
The old time police officers that I knew in the Southeast preferred nickel revolvers because when they drew them, they wanted that gun to be seen. Also, due to the humidity and frequent rain, nickel resisted rusting better.

"I am retired but I was a Police Firearms Instructor for over 40 years. I don"t know when TDPS began issuing revolvers but i have never seen anything that was nickle plated that was issued."

I remember reading a Skeeter Skelton story about a Border Patrol agent who had an AD with the issue Colt New Service. The BP officer knew an armorer with the Texas DPS. At that time (1930-40s), DPS carried nickel .38 New Service revolvers. The armorer swapped barrels, nickeling the BP barrel and putting on a DPS gun, and also blued a DPS barrel, which was put on the BP New Service.

 

[X Ring Ranch]

If the hammer and trigger are nickel that would indicate that the gun was most likely refinished again outside of the factory subsequent to June 1980 factory markings.

Bob

Let me qualify what I said earlier and where I am coming from.

I am new here but not to revolvers.

In the late 1960's and early 70's I traveled with a department pistol team and shot in PPC matches. We went to several states including Mississippi, which held the National PPC Matches. At the Nationals we got to rub shoulders with some of the best in the USA. The top dogs at that time were the US Border Patrol. Tommy Gaines, Jerry Jackson, Charlie Pirtle, and their #1 fan Bill Jordan. Bill Jordan was there to give them pointers and support. I recall him saying about competitors
"If you didn't bring it with you, you won't find it here"

Reeves Jungkind and Billy McElroy were top dogs with the Texas Department of Public Safety. They all shot Colt Pythons built by Jungkind.

At every big match we competed in were S&W and COLT booths set up with several factory gunsmiths working on revolvers. On occasion if I had a problem they couldn't fix on the spot they would take the firearm back to the factory and make repairs and send it back to me. Never charged me a dime including shipping.

I have seen blued S&W revolvers with hammers and triggers nickel plated being shot in competition. Nickel adds minute thickness to a part and makes it smooth.

I never say never when it comes to what a factory will or won't do. I think it depends more on who you are or who you know.

 

[05CarbonDRZ]

In your pictures it looks like the sides of the Hammer are smooth,Is that correct?

 

[gmborkovic]

Would a Jinks letter on a nickel gun, indicate the finish of the H&T? I understand that if the gun was a special order these features may/may not be indicated. Could I have bought a pre 10 or pre 36 (CS) in nickel and sent the H&T back to be factory nickeled? We have all seen plenty of nickel S&W that scream Bubbas Bumper Shop. We know the tell tale signs. Im not starting a pot stir, so no hackles up. It seems this question has drifted from an absolute to a far fetched may be, probably not , hard to prove , well could have happened but no. So Im coming to the conclusion that if you dont have a copy of the special order form indicating the finish, you are out of luck. Just my 2 cents. Mike 2796

 

[05CarbonDRZ]

If your Gun has a Nickel Hammer and Trigger there is a 99.9% chance it was refinished outside of the Factory.If you are a Gambling Man you can bet on the .01% if you want.

 

[bettis1]

If the hammer does not have the concentric grooves on the sides it is not an original Registered Magnum hammer.

Bob

 

[05CarbonDRZ]

If the hammer does not have the concentric grooves on the sides it is not an original Registered Magnum hammer.

Bob

They could have been polished off when the Hammer was Nickel plated....

 

[X Ring Ranch]

In your pictures it looks like the sides of the Hammer are smooth,Is that correct?

No


The sides of the hammer have 20 or 30 (I didn't count them) semi circle groves cut into it.

Still very distinct and visible up close

 

[gmborkovic]

Hello DZR, Im a gambler. Stocks and real estate. Have lost on some bets and won big on the majority of them. Its only money. I give mine to the kids to help them out in these times. I will take a chance on a nickel S&W if the tell tale signs of a Bubba job are not there. You know what to look for. Good hunting and I know you wish me the same. Mike 2796

 

[X Ring Ranch]

If your Gun has a Nickel Hammer and Trigger there is a 99.9% chance it was refinished outside of the Factory.If you are a Gambling Man you can bet on the .01% if you want.

Why does it have R-N and the number 6 80 stamped on the grip frame?

 

[bettis1]

They could have been polished off when the Hammer was Nickel plated....

Yes, they could have been. If so, we are branching into the realm of whether it remains, at that point, a Factory RM hammer or just someone's perverted use of a sanding machine. Perhaps it could be called an original factory RM hammer, in the strictest sense, but hardly recognizable as such.

Whether the nickel plating would have been thick enough to accommodate that thinning of the sides is questionable. Seems like a lot of work to go to just to have a nickel hammer.

Another point to check is whether or not the top of the spur is entirely checked. If it is, it started out as an RM hammer and the sides were ground down. If it is not, it is NOT a RM hammer…unless someone went even further into unnecessary modifications and removed both the concentric circles AND the spur checking.

Bob

 

[X Ring Ranch]

Like Bob sez, I also believe an out-side the factory re-nickel finish of later than the '80 marking...

The plated hammer, trigger and front sight blade is the bugger-booo for me.

I built a RM to resemble Jims original four inch nickeled RM.

Please note that I did not have the hammer, trigger, sight blade
nor the rear sight assembly plated, as to maintain the appearance of an original like configuration,
i.e. to recreate a 'vintage style of revolver that I personally liked the looks of.

I carry and shoot 'er too!




Hope your RM comes back as being shipped to a Ranger


.

Mine has the S&W Logo on the right side and it is highly visible. Has yours been polished off or is it the light.?

Mine has a King front sight with a slotted small machine screw holding the blade. The blade is a Baughman style and appears to be stainless. Is your front sight pinned or attached with a screw? My rear sight is blue but with a late white outline blade installed.

Nice work on yours.

 

[lowriderfxr]

Indicates refinish in nickel. I saw the picture you took of the barrel and inside the ejector shroud. I couldn't make out a serial number there, but if you use a light or magnification and see a serial number inside that shroud, (where the ejector rod would cover it if the revolver was "closed") , there will be a small B or N that precedes the serial number. That will tell you if that revolver shipped in blue or nickel.