Release slide on an empty chamber?

[Muss Muggins]

I agree with that.

Understand that I’m not saying that your instructions will be correct. I’m just saying you will want to make sure they won’t do things with/to that firearm that will make you mad, regardless of whether or not they are actually damaging to the firearm . . .

 

[Ed Fowler]

I asked a good friend not to let the slide slam on an empty pistol of mine. He claimed it did not hurt them and they were meant to be able to take it and let the slide slam shut!! He was going to do it again and I took my pistol away from him and told him he was no longer welcome in my home. That was about 5 years ago, we still have not spoken.

I fully realize it probably will not hurt the pistol, I have shot over 30,000 rounds through it and never a problem. But it is mine and I asked him to not let it slam shut. One friend I will not miss!!

 

[Muss Muggins]

That is a strange hill to die on, especially after you acknowledge that what he did in your opinion probably was fine. I’m gonna guess that action was the last straw of many other indiscretions . . .

I asked a good friend not to let the slide slam on an empty pistol of mine. He claimed it did not hurt them and they were meant to be able to take it and let the slide slam shut!! He was going to do it again and I took my pistol away from him and told him he was no longer welcome in my home. That was about 5 years ago, we still have not spoken.

I fully realize it probably will not hurt the pistol, I have shot over 30,000 rounds through it and never a problem. But it is mine and I asked him to not let it slam shut. One friend I will not miss!!

 

[Ed Fowler]

The pistol was just an old 1911 that had been thoroughly worked over by some gunsmith in California named Amend Swenson.

 

[CB3]

Training to overcome a problem that doesn’t exist doesn’t make any sense to me, especially if you fight as you train and such training could interfere with fighting.

Being respectful of other people’s equipment, especially at their request, is just polite behavior. Handling an older or high value gun is a privilege.

Riding a slide forward doesn’t hurt anything on any gun, except for the potential of ingraining a bad habit into one’s subconscious. I have two otherwise completely reliable guns that often won’t go fully into battery with a slide ride, even with an empty chamber. Both barrel hoods fit tight to the slide. Babying them can cause a FtFire. If it is truly necessary to baby a gun this way, is it mostly for games or for EDC? Games, eh, doesn’t matter. Fighting? That’s different IMO.

I don’t pretend to be one who has never made any modifications to my guns. I have even polished components and lightened a spring or two. I’ve added Apex parts. Yet I allow my slide to slam shut on empty chambers on all my guns, mostly using the slide lever. Some have as many of these practice/training cycles as live fire cycles. I’ve never seen sear peening or had hammer/striker follow. I acknowledge it could happen, but it seems not until after many, many tens of thousands of cycles over a long time. Looking for the wear and changing out parts before it becomes dangerous (tactical reload of parts) would keep this at the non-problem level, and allow simply operating the release without further care or steps being required.

 

[MTC(SS)Ret]

Why would it make a difference mechanically in a pistol whether the chamber is empty or the slide is chambering a round when the slide is returned to battery under the full force of the recoil spring? I would think, logically speaking, a slide closing on an empty chamber is less stressful on the moving parts such as the breech face and the ejector since there is no cartridge for them to come in contact with.
That's just me thinking out loud, I don't mean any offense to anyone else and their opinions.

 

[Steve912]

If such closing of the slide on an empty chamber could cause hammer bounce to some degree, would it not also happen when a round is in the chamber to some (lesser?) degree? In other words, every time the pistol is loaded or fired?

Sounds like most or all of the OP was in reference to "tuned"
1911 actions.

No, the same impact/wear on hammer & sear doesn't happen
every time the pistol is fired. During firing cycle, the trigger is
still held to rear, as slide recocks hammer.

Maybe Jerry Miculek has the trigger coming of the sear before the
slide recocks the hammer, but no one else does!

And you can see peening on slide stop shaft and barrel lugs,
where slide's forward momentum is stopped, during return to
battery. Repeated slingshotting of empty 1911A1s is harder on
those surfaces than firing, without the slide losing velocity to
pushing a round out of magazine and driving same into the
chamber. That peening of slide stop shaft and barrel lugs
(and even links, to a degree) were part of the GI .45's rattly
sloppiness.

 

[CB3]

Sounds like most or all of the OP was in reference to "tuned"
1911 actions.

No, the same impact/wear on hammer & sear doesn't happen
every time the pistol is fired. During firing cycle, the trigger is
still held to rear, as slide recocks hammer.

The hammer is held cocked by the sear when the slide is at full rearward travel, even if the trigger remains depressed. When the slide travels forward to battery the hammer remains cocked by the sear, no matter the position of the trigger. When the slide slams into battery, no matter the position of the trigger, proponents say shock is imparted to the hammer which bounces on the sear. To posit that this shock only comes from chambering on an empty chamber and not a loaded chamber does not seem to make sense. If a hammer is going to bounce enough to damage a sear, it is just as likely to occur every time the gun goes into battery.

Maybe Jerry Miculek has the trigger coming of the sear before the
slide recocks the hammer, but no one else does!

And you can see peening on slide stop shaft and barrel lugs,
where slide's forward momentum is stopped, during return to
battery. Repeated slingshotting of empty 1911A1s is harder on
those surfaces than firing, without the slide losing velocity to
pushing a round out of magazine and driving same into the
chamber. That peening of slide stop shaft and barrel lugs
(and even links, to a degree) were part of the GI .45's rattly
sloppiness. and reliability with no lack of safety or danger of uncontrolled firing. Part of the recognition of the original design specs.

Can anyone quantify the difference in slide closing physics RE: empty chamber vs. loading the chamber? Don’t both actions achieve the same full lock up? Is the amount of slide velocity loss due to friction with loading the round so substantial that there is no hammer jump, but yes with an empty chamber to the point of ruining an in-spec gun? I can’t quite grasp this concept.

 

[LVSteve]

I ride the slide down on an empty chamber because I have some mechanical sympathy. It doesn't cost me anything.

 

[Rpg]

I can’t remember the last time I used the slide stop at all on my 1911’s.

I don’t shoot my gun dry, so in clearing the action I drop the magazine then remove the cartridge in the chamber and ride the slide to close the action. The slide is never locked back by the slide stop.

This isn’t as a result of any concern about wearing the action: it’s just a matter of gun handling, since you never shoot your gun dry. If you do, you’ve just got a blunt instrument while reloading.

 

[gc70]

It’s not a given at all. It’s a machine designed to control a small explosion and expell a projectile at hundreds of feet per second, slamming the slide rearward, which then slams forward at speed with force. I’d quit handing my pistol to people without a checklist, PowerPoint, and pre and post written and practical test . . .

Don't treat another person's property with disdain, nor the person with disrespect.

 

[schutz5]

'Karen' says, the military Beretta (M92)
Is a DA/SA pistol.
There were a few special civilian m92 models that were SAO.
All's good!

 

[NukeRef]

Bill Wilson ... say its OK to do it with theirs.

Umm, no. He doesn't.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AuVd0qycrc[/ame]

And this is from his 1911 Owner's Manual, p. 25:

"6. Hammer Follow
A Wilson Combat® 1911 has a finely tuned hammer and sear surfaces to provide you a safe but light and crisp trigger pull that will last the average shooter a lifetime. If these surfaces become damaged or lose adjustment you may experience the hammer following to half cock when the slide drops on an empty chamber. Because of this, it is never advised to slam or drop the slide on an empty chamber from the fully retracted or slide lock position. When handling a Wilson Combat® 1911 you should always ease the slide down on an empty chamber unless you are feeding ammunition from the magazine to load the firearm. If you experience hammer follow to the half cock notch while loading, handling or shooting your firearm please contact Wilson Combat® Customer Service."

 

[NukeRef]

It's clear to me that most people in this thread are retired or don't get much done at work.

LOL!! Guilty as charged. Retired plus the pandemic has left me with too much time on my hands.

 

[NukeRef]

'Karen' says, the military Beretta (M92)
Is a DA/SA pistol.
There were a few special civilian m92 models that were SAO.
All's good!

So, does 'Karen' drop her slide on an empty chamber?

 

[Steve912]

Is the amount of slide velocity loss due to friction with loading the round so substantial that there is no hammer jump, but yes with an empty chamber to the point of ruining an in-spec gun? I can’t quite grasp this concept.

Post #27 has the info.

 

[Mike J]

I find myself wondering why this thread was posted in the M&P pistols portion of the forum.

Personally I don't worry about his issue with striker fired or DA/SA semi-auto pistols. I don't let the slide drop on an empty chamber on a 1911. Why subject parts to unnecessary wear? I really like the 1911 platform but the only one I own has a 5" barrel. I prefer something smaller for carry (usually a M&P 2.0 40 Compact). I do really like the ergonomics & trigger pull of a 1911 though.

 

[max503]

I don't but I'm picky.

 

[jurek]

[...]
I don't let the slide drop on an empty chamber on a 1911. Why subject parts to unnecessary wear? I really like the 1911 platform but the only one I own has a 5" barrel. I prefer something smaller for carry (usually a M&P 2.0 40 Compact). I do really like the ergonomics & trigger pull of a 1911 though.

I'm actually less worried about 1911. This platform can survive thousands of empty chamber slide hits.
Of course all it's about the user, how he feels about that... but the firearm by itself doesn't care - it is not gonna break.

 

[mike from st pete]

I have always slowed the slide closing on an empty chamber, also I slingshot the slide and never use the slide stop lever to move the slide into battery with or without a round to chamber.