Reloading 38 S&W - Update

[rakysk]

Hello,

I'm looking for advice on reloading 38 S&W for Enfield, top break revolver.

So far I only reload 38 special. I use Titegroup, CFE Pistol and Bullseye powders.

Few months ago I picked up Enfield No.2, Mk1** revolver; bought box of factory ammo (Magtech), took it to the range and liked it, so I'm thinking to reload for it – 38 S&W.

Hodgdon website does not show any data for Titegroup or CFE Pistol. Alliant website does not show any data for Bullseye for 38 S&W.

I did little searching online and it looks to me that from powders I have, 2.0 gr. of Bullseye would be the one to use with 145 gr. lead bullets. Would that be correct?

Also, what is good place online to buy lead bullets for 38 S&W (0.360 or 0.361 diameter)?

Thank you.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

You have pretty strong pistol, but many 38 S&W top break revolvers are not that strong. So the data is for the weaker pistols for safety sake. See if you can find some of the 200 grain LRN bullets you gun was engineered for. Cartridges Of The World 4th Edition, recommends 3.1 gr Unique for this and 4.7gr Unique for 150, and 2.2 Bullseye for 145 bullet. you will probably want .360" diameter bullets. Don't use 38 Special loading dies! They are very different cartridges!

Ivan

 

[Bosquebass]

Lyman's third Pistol and Revolver Handbook has some good data on 38 S&W and shows several different powders and bullet weights for the cartridge.
Matt's Bullets casts some good slugs for your gun including the 38/200 that it was designed for. Matts Bullets
Lyman shows 2.1 of Bullseye to be the starting load and 2.4 to be the maximum with a 150 grain lead bullet. Max OAL of the cartridge is 1.240 inches. Be careful and don't make the overall length too short as pressures can go up fast with the large bullets and the small case.
Useable carbide dies can be had on the cheap from Lee.

The first handgun that I ever fired over 50 years ago was my Grandmother's nightstand gun, a Colt Police Positive in 38 S&W.
I've been hooked on the little cartridge ever since. I still have the old Colt.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Don't use the Lee carbide die set. The sizer is actually a 38 super sizing die and is straight walled. The 38 S&W has some tapper to it for extraction, and some (actually many) sized rounds won't chamber is S&W revolvers as well as others. Try and get a set of RCBS standard dies (yes, you need to lube the cases). They cost more than Lee but are for the correct chamber! I use a very old set of Lyman "All American" dies from the 1960's and they make perfect ammo for the Victory model and the Enfield revolvers. Most people don't shoot more than 300 rounds of 38 S&W a year so the higher production rates from carbide and progressive presses aren't worth the investment.

 

[gwpercle]

In a pinch you can use 148 grain Hollow Based Wadcutter bullets , the soft swaged ones used in target ammo.
The soft hollow base will expand and fill the bore for a decent fit.
Over 2.0 to 2.5 grains of Bullseye this makes for a nice load in my 38 S&W DA.
Gary

 

[M1A]

I load for an Enfield No.2 Mk1. I prefer 2.6gr W231 with 200gr .361 Matt's Bullets. Of the two choices they are listed for the Webley MkII.
When I had no W231 I used 2.3gr Titegroup. It is not a published load. I carefully worked it up out of necessity and happy with the result. All the regular caveats re: data are in force.
I use a medium crimp. I also measure the powder as opposed to dump.
As mentioned Brit top breaks are more substantial than the US.

 

[rakysk]

Thanks for all advice.

I'll get 145 gr bullets, but haven't decided if to go with cheaper Lee dies or spend little more $ on RCBS recommended by "Ivan the Butcher".

Anyway, it's a nice caliber to shoot with nice surplus revolver.

 

[GypsmJim]

I've been shooting my Enfield for About 15 years using Lee 158 gr. SWC and 2.2 Bullseye. The Lee carbide dies have performed perfectly.

The 158's are 0.358 and are my goto for 38 Spl, so no need to buy a different bullet.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I load for the same exact pistol, I like the Enfield but for the trigger.

I'm loading a 170gr flat nose case bullet using W231. I also load a 200gr bullet to mimic the British 38/200 round and I use W231 there too. The 200gr bullet is from a Lyman #358430 mold. It's probably not what was used back then but it works OK.

 

[rakysk]

Guys, thanks for all tips.
Bought Lee dies, 0.361 diameter, 145 grain RN bullets and starline brass.
Reloaded (using 2.0 grains of Bullseye) and shot 150 rounds from my Enfield No.2 Mk1** revolver. It seemed a little weak , so next time I'll try to go to 2.2 grains of Bullseye.

Few cases got "damaged" (see picture) when using expanding die. Not sure why.

I do like to shoot this caliber. Thinking to get another revolver in 38 S&W.
Recommendations?

 

[HKSmith]

I've been reloading .38 S&W for 20 years with a set of Lee dies and have not encountered the problems that Ivan mentioned with a variety of S&W's and one Colt. My favorites are the S&W Victory, the S&W Terrier, and the Colt Police Positive. I also shoot some S&W breaktops with starting loads from the Lyman Manual. I'm also a big fan of swaged hollow base wadcutters for this cartridge. They should be seated with about half the bullet protruding from the case, NOT flush as would be done with the .38 Special.

 

[CptCurl]

I own four S&W revolvers chambered for this cartridge - three .38 RP, and one .38 Terrier. I load for this cartridge using the Lee carbide dies. Until this morning I had no idea that the Lee dies were suspect.

To Ivan's credit, I just looked at my sizing die. It is roll-marked "38 auto".

On recollection, I think all the rounds I have loaded have been with new Starline brass. They wouldn't have needed resizing. So I don't really know if I have a problem with the Lee sizer or not. Time will tell.

Curl

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Guys, thanks for all tips.
Bought Lee dies, 0.361 diameter, 145 grain RN bullets and starline brass.
Reloaded (using 2.0 grains of Bullseye) and shot 150 rounds from my Enfield No.2 Mk1** revolver. It seemed a little weak , so next time I'll try to go to 2.2 grains of Bullseye.

Few cases got "damaged" (see picture) when using expanding die. Not sure why.

I do like to shoot this caliber. Thinking to get another revolver in 38 S&W.
Recommendations?

I had the same thing happen to me when trying to size used brass. Someone had sized the brass with .38 Special dies so the brass got damaged when I used the proper dies. I fixed it by first using a .38 Special expander then the .38 S&W expander.

Here is a photo of the 170gr bullet loaded in that fixed brass which shot well.