reloading for the 629

[mzimmers]

Hi, all –

I have a new 629 PC I'm ready to handload for. I have a bunch of old hard-cast lead bullets in 275 and 300 grain. Are these too heavy for this gun? If not, what would some good loads be? I have Titegroup and H110 on the shelf, and given how tough powder is to come by, I'd rather use these than look for others, if it's OK.

Thanks for any ideas...

 

[canoe on the yukon]

The H-110 you have is perfect.Don't use it for reduced loads.For near max,it's ideal.Good data is all over the place for H-110 in the 44 magnum.

 

[sonny]

Yes, use your H-110.
Here is a link to the Hodgdon site. It is a super source of info for you.
http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

Sonnytoo

 

[mzimmers]

Thanks, Sonny –

I've used Hodgdon's site in the past. They just didn't have any load information for lead bullets in the weights I mentioned above. I know H-110 is pretty fussy stuff, so I want to proceed with caution.

And, I'm still wondering whether those bullets are too heavy to be safely used in my 629.

 

[oldtimer]

629

I have a 629 and reload. I don't go over 1000fps. and the rev will last a life time. I use 240 lead 9 grs. of unique. I have shot heavy loads with it but not very offten.I use my blackhawk 44mag. for 300 gr.at 1200 fps. I wouldn't shoot heavy loads with the 629 say 100 rounds. but that just me. good luck, have fun. oldtimer

 

[canoe on the yukon]

Thanks, Sonny –

I've used Hodgdon's site in the past. They just didn't have any load information for lead bullets in the weights I mentioned above. I know H-110 is pretty fussy stuff, so I want to proceed with caution.

And, I'm still wondering whether those bullets are too heavy to be safely used in my 629.

There's a lot of data for cast bullets of those weights in the 44 magnum.Can you tell whether they're from Lyman molds?If not,any other info besides just the weights?I gather from your description that they're commercially cast but you didn't really say..Need more information.

When you say "safely"about their use in the S&W 44 mag,it all depends on what you mean by safe.Extensive use of heavy loads increases wear on any revolver however the 629 will handle anything within SAMMI specs for that caliber.

Downloading H110 too much results in poor burn efficiency which can lead to squib loads.

 

[mzimmers]

There's a lot of data for cast bullets of those weights in the 44 magnum.

I must be using the site wrong, then...the only 300 grain data I see is for Hornady (jacketed) bullets, and none at all for 275 (though I could probably use 270).

Can you tell whether they're from Lyman molds?If not,any other info besides just the weights?I gather from your description that they're commercially cast but you didn't really say..Need more information.

I got these from Bear Creek just before they disappeared. The shape is rounded/flat-point.

 

[canoe on the yukon]

I wasn't referring to a web site.I simply said there's a lot of data available.You seem to be describing a truncated cone bullet.Gas checked or plain based?

 

[mzimmers]

No gas checks. The ogives (I think that's the right term) are rounded, too (until they get to the flat point).

 

[canoe on the yukon]

It's 9pm Eastern time.I'm unable to get to any data at the moment but I'll be able in about an hour.Will post then.

Regards

 

[David Sinko]

Can you use Titegroup with 300 gr. cast bullets? It's at the opposite end of the spectrum when compared to H110. H110 is generally for full throttle loads, and how much of that stuff do you really want to shoot? If you try to reduce the loads you'll end up sticking bullets in the barrel. Just this morning I did some chrono work with my 629-2 Mountain Lion and got 1046 FPS with 240 gr. cast bullets and 8.5 grs. of Winchester 231. That's probably the only load I'll ever shoot out of this revolver.

Dave Sinko

 

[BruceM]

"I know H-110 is pretty fussy stuff"

For the record, H110 is NOT fussy stuff. However, is is not meant for reduced loads. It's intended for .44 magnum velocity level loads in .44 Magnum cases as opposed to .44 Special velocities in .44 Magnum cases.

Bruce

 

[canoe on the yukon]

Ditto to everything Bruce said.I use H110 and W296 (same powder)exclusively for magnum loads.Most of those who complain about this powder are the ones who really don't want to shoot a magnum.They simply like to see the word "magnum"roll marked on the barrel.

If you want light plinking loads,H110 and W296 are not what you want but I don't think 275 and 300 grain bullets are what you want either.With bullets of that weight,it's assumed you want power otherwise lighter bullets make much more sense.

Ever since the heavyweight bullets became popular in the sixguns,the load most mentioned in the way of 300 gr cast bullets in the 44 magnum is 21.5 gr of H110/W296.It's definately hot to trot and I wouldn't use an extensive amount in the Smith revolver.

Anytime one uses bullets for which there is no "specific data for that particular bullet",a certain amount of extrapolation seems inevitable....likewise in this case.Each bullet is different and an equal measure of experience and common sense are needed.

Lyman#48 shows.....17.7gr of H110 for a starting load and 18.5gr for a max load behind their 300 gr 429650.......Pressure with that max load is stated to be 37,900 cup.Velocity is 1036 fps from their 4 inch vented test barrel.OAL is 1.700.

With their 275 gr bullet(429640),they don't give data for H110.They do with 2400,AA9 and N110.

I personaly prefer to use data for a specific bullet when I'm loading pedal to the metal but there are those who do otherwise.I'll give you some data out of a 2006 Winchester manual for W296(same powder as H110).


270gr Speer GDSP....21.5gr....1421fps...37,700 cup

280 gr Swift jhp.....20.5gr.....1342fps...36,100 cup

300gr Hornady XTP.....19.0gr....1325fps....38,800cup

These are jacketed bullets and needless to say,pressure and velocity will NOT be the same with your cast bullets.Jacketed bullets do indeed build more pressure when all things are equal because of the friction for the most part.Seating depth,bearing surface,etc have an effect on pressure.You're on your own as no one will promise the results.


Hope this helps.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Say WHAT?

Most of those who complain about this powder are the ones who really don't want to shoot a magnum.They simply like to see the word "magnum"roll marked on the barrel.

I suppose there are folks that fall into that category, I don't like H110 but it has nothing to do with not wanting to shoot magnum loads.

Generalizations are ignorant.

I don't shoot magnum rounds just to shoot them either. I like to shoot real magnum rounds when I do though and I don't want the whole sky to light up either. That is my problem with H110. I just don't like the muzzle flash you get from that powder.

With the selection of acceptable powders for magnum velocities available today, there is no reason to be stuck with H110 either. AA#9 will deliver the same velocities with NO muzzle flash. It also has no warning about reduced charges. I also like Lil' Gun for the same reasons.

I use a MILSURP powder too that works very well. It is called WC820. There are lots available that range from using H110 data to AA#9 data. What I like about this powder is that it has NO muzzle flash at all. It was designed for the M1 Carbine round. Could you imagine going to combat with a powder that flashed like H110? No thanks.

FWIW

 

[BruceM]

"I just don't like the muzzle flash you get from that powder."

I guess that for the vast majority of us who do not use .44 magnum ammo in tactical situations, hunt at night or are concerned about giving away our position to the next deer we shoot for fear of taking returned fire, it provides fine service indeed. H110 was originally a mil surplus propellant used in .30 cal carbine ammo. Most powders originally sold by Hodgdon were.

I've shot a fair amount on AA#9 but, while similar to H110/W296, is not as good IMO. I can't speak to WC820 because it's not a commonly available commercial grade canister propellant.

What H110/W296 will do is provide maximum velocity, extremely accurate ammunition at lower chamber pressures than most other propellants at similar velocities and at lower perceived recoil impulses. For 99% of recreational shooters of magnum level ammunition, that fills he bill to a tee. For those shooters who would sacrifice some ballistic performance for stealth capabilities, there are other choices. Incidentally, muzzle flash with H110/W296 lessens as bullet weight goes up in every loading so there is substantially more with 180 grain .44 magnum loads than 240 grain and so on. Also, cast bullet will generate less flash than jacketed of the same weight. For my part, I might tolerate less velocity at the same or better accuracy levels with rifle ammunition but not with handgun loads.

I guess that in the end, only you can decide what matters to you and what trade-offs your willing to make.



Bruce

 

[Rule3]

Lyman#48 shows.....17.7gr of H110 for a starting load and 18.5gr for a max load behind their 300 gr 429650.......Pressure with that max load is stated to be 37,900 cup.Velocity is 1036 fps from their 4 inch vented test barrel.OAL is 1.700.

Hope this helps.

The Lyman data #49 for the 300 gr # 429650 also indicates the use of **Gas Check bullet** (listed on the 44 mag info page with the bullets used)

 

[canoe on the yukon]

The original question was (paraphrased)....."I have a 629....I also have heavy cast bullets......I also have H110 powder......What can I do with it????

I addressed that question as best I could....If I thought this was going to be a powder debate such as "Is H110 good or bad???....Do you like it or not?...I would have stayed out of it.

If the person who asked the question was experienced enough,the question wouldn't have been asked in the first place and my answer was attempting to be mindful of that.

For light practice,I use a cast Keith (250) backed by 8.5 of Unique but I don't consider that a magnum load.

For heavy bullet loads in the magnum revolver rounds,H110/W296 have proven to be excellent whether one chooses to use it or not.But then again,I'm generalizing which indicates ignorance.

 

[mzimmers]

Thanks for the input, everyone. I appreciate the fact that it's inappropriate to attempt light loads with either the big bullets, or with H-110. The reason I mentioned Titegroup and H-110 in the same breath, was that those are the only handgun powders I have, and getting powder right now isn't easy.

Some of you have mentioned that a steady diet of heavy bullets/loads may not be best for the gun, too. I am very mindful of that. Perhaps I'll just melt down these bullets and make 240-grain bullets out of them. I don't want to beat this gun up.

Thanks again, everyone.

 

[canoe on the yukon]

mzimmers,

I wouldn't melt them down if I were you.My personal choices in components are actually irrelevant and I'm trying to avoid making an issue of it.For extended practice,heavy loads loosen tolerances on all revolvers although some are designed more robustly than others.Therefore I'd suggest you do most of your shooting with mild loads out of empathy for the gun.

However that does NOT MEAN that you should be afraid to use heavy loads on occasion.I'm aware that some seem to be preoccupied with this.The gun will handle any 44 magnum load within SAMMI specs...period.

 

[mzimmers]

OK, I'll keep that in mind. So...are the numbers you cited above for the Lyman bullets probably OK for use without gas checks, too?